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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

AquaY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 30, 2021
431
1,397
Long Island NY
Off Topic but related and I'd like to ask it here instead of making a new thread.
If anyone here feels this is a distraction just say so and i will make a thread.
This is mostly a question for Americans because that's where I live.

What broker do you use and like?
How good are their trading systems ? Especially for options and tracking positions. What fees are charged and what's their margin loan rate if you know?
I use Etrade. They have a good over all platform; Etrade Pro which I do like for my main positions.
You can add and subtract what you want to see, how it's arranged, sort and resort etc like I'm sure many other platforms do.

I use Power Etrade for doing my Options scenarios and it's pretty good but lacks some useful tools and could be easier to enter complex strategies.
For example to enter an Iron Condor I have to enter all the information except the underlying of each leg myself. It's annoying when you want to run several different ICs

To see margin impact you have to use their regular website instead of having it on the screen you are using. It does show what your buying power after the trade will be but in order to see what it's impact is you have to note what your buying power is before entering a scenario.

I have an IRA at a mutual fund company and another account at Charles Schwab and am thinking of moving them to another broker with better systems than Etrade so I can trade options in them.
I was thinking of Ameritrade but would love to hear feedback from people actually using it.

One of the great things for me with Etrade is my margin account. Because Etrade bought out Brown & Co years ago where I had my account originally, they have to honor my Brown rate agreements. My margin rate today is 3.09%
Obviously this is for loan margin not options margin.
 

UltradoomY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Mar 13, 2020
351
1,676
Tampa, FL
Off Topic but related and I'd like to ask it here instead of making a new thread.
If anyone here feels this is a distraction just say so and i will make a thread.
This is mostly a question for Americans because that's where I live.

What broker do you use and like?
How good are their trading systems ? Especially for options and tracking positions. What fees are charged and what's their margin loan rate if you know?
I use Etrade. They have a good over all platform; Etrade Pro which I do like for my main positions.
You can add and subtract what you want to see, how it's arranged, sort and resort etc like I'm sure many other platforms do.

I use Power Etrade for doing my Options scenarios and it's pretty good but lacks some useful tools and could be easier to enter complex strategies.
For example to enter an Iron Condor I have to enter all the information except the underlying of each leg myself. It's annoying when you want to run several different ICs

To see margin impact you have to use their regular website instead of having it on the screen you are using. It does show what your buying power after the trade will be but in order to see what it's impact is you have to note what your buying power is before entering a scenario.

I have an IRA at a mutual fund company and another account at Charles Schwab and am thinking of moving them to another broker with better systems than Etrade so I can trade options in them.
I was thinking of Ameritrade but would love to hear feedback from people actually using it.

One of the great things for me with Etrade is my margin account. Because Etrade bought out Brown & Co years ago where I had my account originally, they have to honor my Brown rate agreements. My margin rate today is 3.09%
Obviously this is for loan margin not options margin.

I think for functionality regarding spreads - here is what I understand from talking to multiple parties -
#1. IBKR (Interactive Brokers) is the best for complex strategies and visualizing margin and probability on one screen.
#2. is a tie between Schwab Street Smart Edge and Fidelity (I personally use Street Smart)
The rest are bottom feeders (in the USA)

Margin and trade fees can be negotiated easily and success depends on account size and maybe moving it over.
For me having an auto load of "roll spread" and other such functions is a big plus in IBKR and Street Smart.
 

stealthyc

Member
May 22, 2019
321
1,883
MI
I think for functionality regarding spreads - here is what I understand from talking to multiple parties -
#1. IBKR (Interactive Brokers) is the best for complex strategies and visualizing margin and probability on one screen.
#2. is a tie between Schwab Street Smart Edge and Fidelity (I personally use Street Smart)
The rest are bottom feeders (in the USA)

Margin and trade fees can be negotiated easily and success depends on account size and maybe moving it over.
For me having an auto load of "roll spread" and other such functions is a big plus in IBKR and Street Smart.
Thinkorswim (TD Ameritrade) is not a bottom feeder. Margin and trade fees are negotiatable as well, and it has all kinds of nice roll functions and complex trading strategy assistance.
 

AquaY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 30, 2021
431
1,397
Long Island NY
I think for functionality regarding spreads - here is what I understand from talking to multiple parties -
#1. IBKR (Interactive Brokers) is the best for complex strategies and visualizing margin and probability on one screen.
#2. is a tie between Schwab Street Smart Edge and Fidelity (I personally use Street Smart)
The rest are bottom feeders (in the USA)

Margin and trade fees can be negotiated easily and success depends on account size and maybe moving it over.
For me having an auto load of "roll spread" and other such functions is a big plus in IBKR and Street Smart.
Thanks Since I have a nice size IRA at Schwab I guess I should try them first. They only gave me Level 1 clearance though and I want to do spreads.
I'll apply for an upgrade. maybe do a CC just so they see a trade or 2 first
 

corduroy

Member
Jan 30, 2018
819
5,980
Earth, for now (sigh)
Off Topic but related and I'd like to ask it here instead of making a new thread.
If anyone here feels this is a distraction just say so and i will make a thread.
This is mostly a question for Americans because that's where I live.

What broker do you use and like?
How good are their trading systems ? Especially for options and tracking positions. What fees are charged and what's their margin loan rate if you know?
I use Etrade. They have a good over all platform; Etrade Pro which I do like for my main positions.
You can add and subtract what you want to see, how it's arranged, sort and resort etc like I'm sure many other platforms do.

I use Power Etrade for doing my Options scenarios and it's pretty good but lacks some useful tools and could be easier to enter complex strategies.
For example to enter an Iron Condor I have to enter all the information except the underlying of each leg myself. It's annoying when you want to run several different ICs

To see margin impact you have to use their regular website instead of having it on the screen you are using. It does show what your buying power after the trade will be but in order to see what it's impact is you have to note what your buying power is before entering a scenario.

I have an IRA at a mutual fund company and another account at Charles Schwab and am thinking of moving them to another broker with better systems than Etrade so I can trade options in them.
I was thinking of Ameritrade but would love to hear feedback from people actually using it.

One of the great things for me with Etrade is my margin account. Because Etrade bought out Brown & Co years ago where I had my account originally, they have to honor my Brown rate agreements. My margin rate today is 3.09%
Obviously this is for loan margin not options margin.
My trading accounts are split between TD Ameritrade and Fidelity. I am thinking of moving everything to TD Ameritrade. For me, the Thinkorswim web and desktop trading tools are the best I have tried. When I have to jump over to Fidelity it seems clunky. I also use Tastyworks to research trades because I like their visual tool.
 

UltradoomY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Mar 13, 2020
351
1,676
Tampa, FL
Thinkorswim (TD Ameritrade) is not a bottom feeder. Margin and trade fees are negotiatable as well, and it has all kinds of nice roll functions and complex trading strategy assistance.
Agreed - just forgot about them.
The founders of TOS left and started Tasty Trade which has great visuals.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,595
19,735
San Diego, CA
Off Topic but related and I'd like to ask it here instead of making a new thread.
If anyone here feels this is a distraction just say so and i will make a thread.
This is mostly a question for Americans because that's where I live.

What broker do you use and like?
How good are their trading systems ? Especially for options and tracking positions. What fees are charged and what's their margin loan rate if you know?
I use Etrade. They have a good over all platform; Etrade Pro which I do like for my main positions.
You can add and subtract what you want to see, how it's arranged, sort and resort etc like I'm sure many other platforms do.

I use Power Etrade for doing my Options scenarios and it's pretty good but lacks some useful tools and could be easier to enter complex strategies.
For example to enter an Iron Condor I have to enter all the information except the underlying of each leg myself. It's annoying when you want to run several different ICs

To see margin impact you have to use their regular website instead of having it on the screen you are using. It does show what your buying power after the trade will be but in order to see what it's impact is you have to note what your buying power is before entering a scenario.

I have an IRA at a mutual fund company and another account at Charles Schwab and am thinking of moving them to another broker with better systems than Etrade so I can trade options in them.
I was thinking of Ameritrade but would love to hear feedback from people actually using it.

One of the great things for me with Etrade is my margin account. Because Etrade bought out Brown & Co years ago where I had my account originally, they have to honor my Brown rate agreements. My margin rate today is 3.09%
Obviously this is for loan margin not options margin.

I have Fidelity (primary) and Schwab (secondary). I like Fidelity better due to the interface (Active Trader Pro), but I my non-scientific observation is that Schwab gets slightly faster executions and better trades for me. The downside is that my Schwab fees are substantially higher, but that could be due to the account being a fraction of the size.
 
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Lycanthrope

S3XY old dude
Supporting Member
Nov 15, 2013
10,071
79,351
At home
Closed out next week's puts (opened yesterday) 20x p735 & 27x p745 for (just) 40% profits - I'm expecting the Hedgies to walk this below $750 today or tomorrow, I'll re-establish new positions as-and-when

Has become a new feature of my trading to close positions very early when they show a decent gain and not get hung-up on waiting for 90%, it obviously realises cash, reduces risk and allows for a repositioning, preferably after a favourable price movement
 
Last edited:

adiggs

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Sep 25, 2012
5,020
15,523
Portland, OR
Off Topic but related and I'd like to ask it here instead of making a new thread.
If anyone here feels this is a distraction just say so and i will make a thread.
This is mostly a question for Americans because that's where I live.

What broker do you use and like?
How good are their trading systems ? Especially for options and tracking positions. What fees are charged and what's their margin loan rate if you know?
I use Etrade. They have a good over all platform; Etrade Pro which I do like for my main positions.
You can add and subtract what you want to see, how it's arranged, sort and resort etc like I'm sure many other platforms do.

I use Power Etrade for doing my Options scenarios and it's pretty good but lacks some useful tools and could be easier to enter complex strategies.
For example to enter an Iron Condor I have to enter all the information except the underlying of each leg myself. It's annoying when you want to run several different ICs

To see margin impact you have to use their regular website instead of having it on the screen you are using. It does show what your buying power after the trade will be but in order to see what it's impact is you have to note what your buying power is before entering a scenario.

I have an IRA at a mutual fund company and another account at Charles Schwab and am thinking of moving them to another broker with better systems than Etrade so I can trade options in them.
I was thinking of Ameritrade but would love to hear feedback from people actually using it.

One of the great things for me with Etrade is my margin account. Because Etrade bought out Brown & Co years ago where I had my account originally, they have to honor my Brown rate agreements. My margin rate today is 3.09%
Obviously this is for loan margin not options margin.
I'm using Fidelity and it works for me. I'm not using most of the more sophisticated trade entry / exit stuff, and only using the desktop app some for analysis. Mostly enter trades via the web app. Kind of sad when a spread close is easier in a web app than the desktop app.

Fees are .65/contract in and .65/contract out. One exception is BTC <0.65 is free commission. Actually there is a second exception when trading very low cost options. The max commission is something like 0.5% of the trade value - I've encountered that before :)


I plan to keep my brokerage with Fidelity, but I am increasingly ready to shift my IRA and Roth IRA over to TastyWorks. I hear good things about the interface (good). What mostly has me thinking about it is the fee structure. $1/contract in, $0/contract out, with a max of $10 on a single position.

I.e. 10 BPS is $10 for the long and $10 for the short put total, instead of $6.50 for each in and $6.50 for out for each side (thus $20 vs $26).

The value rises fast when trading larger quantities. 40 BPS is $10 in each side, and $0 out vs $26 for each in and $26 for each out. $20 vs $104 - that'll throw in a lot of sushi money quickly. At the extreme, 200 BPS would be $20 in, $0 out vs. $260 in, $260 out. Yeah.

Double all that for ICs.


The wildcard that I have no idea how to evaluate or know in advance is fill quality and speed. A consistent penny or two against me on the fill will overtake that commission improvement fast, and I won't know it as all I'll see are the cheaper commissions. Then again an options focused platform and broker might get me a penny or two improvement on a consistent basis, in which case I still won't particularly notice the fill improvement - all I'll see are the cheaper commissions.

The one way I can think of that I'll notice the fill quality is if I'm using midpoint and getting fast fills instead of slow, or even a penny or three better, rather than the penny or three worse. Actually I split the different between midpoint and bid or ask to the bad for a fast but less good fill right now.
 

adiggs

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Sep 25, 2012
5,020
15,523
Portland, OR
I would normally be doing 9/17 BPS today, but I'd like more resolution on next week before committing.

I like 745 as a floor - we'll see if that holds or not. In that spirit, piling back in with 730, 735, and 740 BPS using a $100 spread size. I'm going with this little bit larger spread size as I see effective management available down below $700. These are awfully close to the money but there also isn't much time to expiration.


I am as ready to close early on these as I am to roll aggressively out to 9/17. I guess part of my thinking is that this is sort of like selling 9/17 today in the event of a further drop in the share price pushing these into the money. And if shares move up even a little bit these will become high % profitable fast.
Small move up today plus 1/3rd of the trading time remaining going away = 80% profits on these BPS.

Close 'em out, leaving me with nothing open. Watching today for a next-week open, with a heavy bias towards opening something tomorrow at the latest. I expect the credit to be higher or the strike more distant with a Friday open over a Monday open.


I'm also staying away from call spreads (and thus ICs). When I have done these I'm so far OTM I collected like .45 and closed at .20, and I had more mental energy wrapped up in these than everything else. I think I'm being excessively gun shy after a bad experience with a smaller spread size back in June.

Something like how I got about CSP earlier in the year as well. Thus my two primary trade strategies continue to be BPS with wide spreads and lcc.
 

stealthyc

Member
May 22, 2019
321
1,883
MI
Small move up today plus 1/3rd of the trading time remaining going away = 80% profits on these BPS.

Close 'em out, leaving me with nothing open. Watching today for a next-week open, with a heavy bias towards opening something tomorrow at the latest. I expect the credit to be higher or the strike more distant with a Friday open over a Monday open.


I'm also staying away from call spreads (and thus ICs). When I have done these I'm so far OTM I collected like .45 and closed at .20, and I had more mental energy wrapped up in these than everything else. I think I'm being excessively gun shy after a bad experience with a smaller spread size back in June.

Something like how I got about CSP earlier in the year as well. Thus my two primary trade strategies continue to be BPS with wide spreads and lcc.
I will likely close my ICs today near market close for about 93% profit. I've got mixed feelings about closing early in general. If there was a big movement early maybe, but on a day like today (and with the stock price near the center of my condor) there is no real benefit to me closing. I'm not interested in opening a new position today because with the stock having so many up days and being at a relatively high RSI I expect some red soon. Also next week has the potential to seek a slightly lower price. I'll re-evaluate tomorrow. If we get a down day I'll probably open BPS then.

I also dislike call spreads. I legged into one this week and it worked out quite well, but they make me much more nervous than puts.
 

adiggs

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Sep 25, 2012
5,020
15,523
Portland, OR
I will likely close my ICs today near market close for about 93% profit. I've got mixed feelings about closing early in general. If there was a big movement early maybe, but on a day like today (and with the stock price near the center of my condor) there is no real benefit to me closing. I'm not interested in opening a new position today because with the stock having so many up days and being at a relatively high RSI I expect some red soon. Also next week has the potential to seek a slightly lower price. I'll re-evaluate tomorrow. If we get a down day I'll probably open BPS then.

I also dislike call spreads. I legged into one this week and it worked out quite well, but they make me much more nervous than puts.
In the past (like say before August this year :D) I was much more of a wait for the profit to build further sort of trader. Which has certainly worked well for me.

This last month and a bit, I've shifted to this take-the-profits mindset, and as a result not stay invested in the market as much. I'd say that instead of nearly full time in the market with both puts and calls as I have been for most of my history, I've been closer to 40-60% in the market, where that mostly means either lcc's or BPS are open but not both, and occasionally neither. It's really clear from my monthly profit tracker that this is WAY better for me - on the order of 2x previous results.


I think the 2x improvement comes from these primary factors.

1) The first is that I have better entry prices. I sell calls on an up day, and sell puts on a down day (selling into strength). These yield better credits and/or better strikes than I previously received, which looked more like sell calls or puts into weakness.

And I've had some days (like yesterday) where I close puts while up in the morning, open new puts later in the day when the shares are down, and then close that second batch of puts today. The close yesterday was around 60% and today was 80%. Given constant position size and credits I got 140% instead of waiting for 60% to turn into 90% over the same time.

2) The second is that by taking profits early I'm getting 2 or 3 in/outs in a week, instead of 1.

3) I guess the third is that the win % is also going up - the need for an individual position to go into rolls for time / position management drops a lot as well.

4) Part of success here is a bit more technical analysis than I've done historically as well. A lot of it is reading what others here are thinking, the Technical Analysis thread, and looking at put/call walls, option activity, and some actual charting of my own (in approximately that volume of effort). All of it together still isn't much, but more than previously for me.


NOT-ADVICE for sure. I'm still new enough to this trading approach that I'm still working out details for myself.
 

adiggs

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Sep 25, 2012
5,020
15,523
Portland, OR
I also dislike call spreads. I legged into one this week and it worked out quite well, but they make me much more nervous than puts.
This is part of why I try out new things. I want to know how they profit, and how profitable they are. I also want to learn how I react emotionally to them - it needs to be something I can readily imagine doing for years to come; these are an example of something I anticipate doing now and then (rarely), but not often.

Maybe the most likely is as a rescue mechanism for covered calls that get too deep (I'd have to think more on that before I actually did it though).
 
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InTheShadows

Active Member
Apr 20, 2013
2,326
1,792
USA
Well the 805 covered calls I sold for next week got day traded today. Put in a buy order at 27% after I opened them. Hope we have a run up into close so I can resell them.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,516
38,694
Oregon
This last month and a bit, I've shifted to this take-the-profits mindset, and as a result not stay invested in the market as much. I'd say that instead of nearly full time in the market with both puts and calls as I have been for most of my history, I've been closer to 40-60% in the market, where that mostly means either lcc's or BPS are open but not both, and occasionally neither. It's really clear from my monthly profit tracker that this is WAY better for me - on the order of 2x previous results.
Very much this! My "fear" was the trading fees, and getting them lowered freed me to move in and out of positions during the week instead of trying to milk one position for all it was worth. In reality even with the old, higher, fees, I would have made more going in and out.

Of course it requires more of my time, so if I want to keep doing it as much as I have the last couple weeks I would need to either retire or get my day job hours shifted...
 

InTheShadows

Active Member
Apr 20, 2013
2,326
1,792
USA
Very much this! My "fear" was the trading fees, and getting them lowered freed me to move in and out of positions during the week instead of trying to milk one position for all it was worth. In reality even with the old, higher, fees, I would have made more going in and out.

Of course it requires more of my time, so if I want to keep doing it as much as I have the last couple weeks I would need to either retire or get my day job hours shifted...
Another approach I took to help with the fees too is to go with the wider spreads. Like 150 & 100 instead of the $50 ones I was doing. I also asked my platforms customer service yesterday for lower fees.
 
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stealthyc

Member
May 22, 2019
321
1,883
MI
In the past (like say before August this year :D) I was much more of a wait for the profit to build further sort of trader. Which has certainly worked well for me.

This last month and a bit, I've shifted to this take-the-profits mindset, and as a result not stay invested in the market as much. I'd say that instead of nearly full time in the market with both puts and calls as I have been for most of my history, I've been closer to 40-60% in the market, where that mostly means either lcc's or BPS are open but not both, and occasionally neither. It's really clear from my monthly profit tracker that this is WAY better for me - on the order of 2x previous results.


I think the 2x improvement comes from these primary factors.

1) The first is that I have better entry prices. I sell calls on an up day, and sell puts on a down day (selling into strength). These yield better credits and/or better strikes than I previously received, which looked more like sell calls or puts into weakness.

And I've had some days (like yesterday) where I close puts while up in the morning, open new puts later in the day when the shares are down, and then close that second batch of puts today. The close yesterday was around 60% and today was 80%. Given constant position size and credits I got 140% instead of waiting for 60% to turn into 90% over the same time.

2) The second is that by taking profits early I'm getting 2 or 3 in/outs in a week, instead of 1.

3) I guess the third is that the win % is also going up - the need for an individual position to go into rolls for time / position management drops a lot as well.

4) Part of success here is a bit more technical analysis than I've done historically as well. A lot of it is reading what others here are thinking, the Technical Analysis thread, and looking at put/call walls, option activity, and some actual charting of my own (in approximately that volume of effort). All of it together still isn't much, but more than previously for me.


NOT-ADVICE for sure. I'm still new enough to this trading approach that I'm still working out details for myself.
I value your experience, and I will likely play around with it a bit as well to see how it works for me.
 
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