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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Used that to fund 20x next week 700/650 BPS. IF they manage to push us down on e.g. tuesday i will "take more risk" and roll the 650->620 or so & as soon as we bounce above 675 this will be reversed again. One way of "playing the dip" IF it happens - but still have my position intact if it doesnt happen.
As promised by the dip into close today: rolled the 650c -> 642.5c (more was not allowed by margin -.-) for $1.15 credit. (2300 bucks) Reverse order for $0.5 is already set (1000 bucks) that should trigger on SP ~700 on monday.
 
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My net position across the board is 540/640 BPS (expiring Aug 13th) and 720cc (expiring Aug 5th)
Hey look! I'm so smart (dumb)! The CC are already up 40%. Meanwhile the BPS are down 30%. Overall the calls are ahead of the spread by a bit, but this is exactly the dynamic I would like to see. Within some range that is trending towards everything being OTM, gains and losses are reasonably well offset. This enables me to be fairly indifferent to the share price being up / down.

Of course I could squeeze in a really short duration trade. Like closing the CC for the nearly $4/share gain and look to sell them again on Monday on what I think is the inevitable pop. Or effectively roll closer on Monday. H'mm... hard to turn down. Yep - I've talked myself into it - taking the >$3 profit during an hour of drywall off the table; I'll look to reopen on Monday.
 
I have the same predicament. I’m going to wait until just before close as I wouldn’t be surprised to see a pushdown during the day. Otherwise I will roll them out and up (and maybe split 50:50 with some sold puts).
Just to follow-up on this, I bought back these calls when the SP was at $683.80 or so 10 mins before close. Lost $300 for each but sold $640 puts for next week to make that back. I think TSLA is way more likely to go up then down next week and even if it drops back, I doubt it goes below $640.

The rest of my sold puts and calls for this week all easily closed OTM.
 
@adiggs @Lycanthrope I like this idea of selling lcc. In my IRA account, if I convert all shares to LEAPS, then I can sell 3 lcc instead of just 1 cc. I'm thinking of 0622 C350 @$360. However, the 0623 C350 @$390 looks like a much better deal. Only $3k more for another year of selling lcc. Seems like you have both dates. What's the reasoning to go with the shorter date?
 
I'm just sitting back, sipping my morning tea watching the stock price today. I feel fairly certain that the MMs will keep it under 700, as there are a lot of call there.

If not, hey, put time.

Hm, shocking how the SP went down from near 700 to just at Max Pain.

Shocking I tell you.

*sips tea*
 
Sold a couple of iron condors for next week -P697.5, -C700. Is that crazy?
That's awfully close to an Iron Butterfly. The difference in the two is that the IB has the same inner strike. The total credit is particularly large - you just need the shares to finish close enough to the chosen strikes.

Way more aggressive than I've ever tried, though I have considered it. I'd go with a fairly wide spread on something like that. Partly because it'll yield a much larger credit and partly because it gives me more room away from a max loss. If you received $20 premiums on each side, then you'll break even or profit between 660 and 740.
 
No, because the lcc's are not actually underwritten by anything, so I really do not want them to exercise. With the cc's, I can decide, if I wish to let the shares go - normally wouldn't at this strike, but the last time I did at 702.50 on 4/30 was actually the last time the SP closed above 700, is it turned-out quite OK
They are underwritten, by the leaps. You just don't get automated handling by the broker. So if the lcc is ITM and you decide to "take assignment" what you'll actually do is sell the leap and BTC the covered call. Taking assignment is a choice on your part to sell the leap in order to also close the short call.

Or you can let it go to expiration and have the broker sell your actual shares (if you have any) OR sell shares on your behalf, leaving you short shares.

You'll probably buy back those short shares first thing Monday, unless your broker helps out by doing that for you :)
 
@adiggs @Lycanthrope I like this idea of selling lcc. In my IRA account, if I convert all shares to LEAPS, then I can sell 3 lcc instead of just 1 cc. I'm thinking of 0622 C350 @$360. However, the 0623 C350 @$390 looks like a much better deal. Only $3k more for another year of selling lcc. Seems like you have both dates. What's the reasoning to go with the shorter date?

My logic is that there are two dynamics I'd like to get from the leaps, and I can theoretically get it from a single position. In practice though my emotions stand in my way. So rather than trying to get new emotions, I work with them :)

One reason I buy these distant calls is that I want to be aggressive with my cc sales, within a larger income objective. To make something up reasonably close to the current environment - if I sold cc's that go ITM, so I roll them (for strike improvement), and they again go ITM, etc.. Eventually getting to a 750 strike while the shares go to 800 and keep going, I'll "take assignment" (sell the leap, BTC the cc), knowing that the leap will be profitable AND I'll keep all of the CC premiums I collected. That will be GREAT from an income perspective. And SUCK from a capital gain perspective (I missed out on the additional share price rise past $750 to at least some degree).

But I'm in it for income, so that's a great outcome for me.


The emotion is this. I get attached to my shares, and I'm finding that I get attached to my longest dated calls also. With that attachment comes bad decisions designed to keep from giving those up (like rolling when I'm deep ITM, hoping real hard that the shares come back).

So my plan is to hold two 'classes' of purchased calls. I don't really know the proportion yet, though it's around 3 closer / 1 later in one account, and 50/50 in a second.
1) The shorter dated calls are ones that I'm emotionally able to take assignment on, pretty easily. I can be really aggressive with the CC sales against these and if/when they get called away, I'm totally good with that (great income!) and I'll decide then what to do. Stay in cash to back more put spreads, or buy replacement calls and sell more CC.

2) The longer dated calls are share replacements. As such I'm selling reasonably aggressive calls, but not as aggressive (that's the theory anyway), and I'll work harder to avoid assignment, while STILL being ready and willing to take assignment. I know that I'm more willing to have these assigned than shares, and that's really my goal - actually being ready to take assignment, so I don't feel backed into a corner trying to avoid selling my shares.


What that means for me, in practice.
- I started this off with those December 2021 500 strike calls. My thinking was to minimize the cost of each call I purchases while still buying multiple months of CC sales. It's worked but I only bought these 6 months out and I plan to close these at 3 months to go, so that I minimize the time decay I'm paying for. I won't buy this close again - I'll be farther out.
-- I'll probably aim for 9-12 months out when I replace these calls with something new. This is what I'm thinking right now. A 9 month option gives me 6 months of CC sales and the 12 month option gives me 9 months of CC sales. That sounds better than a 6 month option providing 3 months of CC sales.
-- These are my aggressive calls, with intent to be taunting the share price, daring to push me deep enough ITM to take assignment instead of continuing to roll. I'll miss out on a lot of capital gains when this happens, but I'm in it for income, and the income will be great before it happens, and even better in assignment.
-- I don't know what my actual ownership window will be. And I might even lose money on the purchased call when I replace them with new. Whatever happens with the long dated call is pretty much ok with me - I'm getting roughly $10/week right now selling the CC, so 3 months / 10 weeks provides for a pretty big range of positive outcomes (I am assuming I'm in the market 10 weeks per quarter now; that leaves me some latitude in what I actually do).

- I also bought June 2023 300 strike calls. They were so far ITM that I paid something like $50 or $60 for the time value up front. I could buy 2 of these for roughly the price of 100 shares, so I got some leveraged exposure to moves up in the share price (roughly .9 delta each, so 1.8 delta total). And I can sell these with about 3 months to go and get back 1/2 of that time value, making these even cheaper to own.
-- OH - and once I'm past a 12 month ownership window, in the brokerage account, these will get long term capital gains treatment.
-- I'll be much more focused on rolling for strike improvement over credits with these as these are share replacements.
-- WHILE also being much more willing to take assignment than I am with shares. I am REALLY attached to my shares, even when that isn't the best financial choice :)


The option you're looking at: 0622 C350 @$360. The way I analyze that is that with the sahres at $680 you are buying $330 worth of intrinsic value, which leaves $30 in time value. Paying $30 time value for 11 or 12 months on the option sounds like a sweet deal to me. That option will probably be down to around $10-20 in time value with 3 months to go, so your actual time value you're paying for is more like $10.

Unless of course the shares take off - you might be getting effectively no time value when you sell, but that's because the shares are at $1000 and the option is worth more like $650 than the $360 you bought it for. That's an ok outcome :)

I also like that strike because the likelihood that will go ITM is extraordinarily low. I like only selling lcc against ITM calls so I want a strike I am very confident (>99%) it won't go ITM.

I might also look at the June 2022 500 strike at $243ish. I'm buying $180 intrinsic value and therefore $63 of time value. I'm getting a bit more leverage at .80 delta instead of .92 delta. That's pretty close to 3 calls for 100 shares and with some extra cash I might be able to get a 4th long dated call in a position where I want to be more aggressive with the sales.

For myself with shares in the 600s I don't think I get closer than the 500 strike. At the 600 strike I think that the likelihood of a pull back that pushes me ITM is too high.
 
My logic is that there are two dynamics I'd like to get from the leaps, and I can theoretically get it from a single position. In practice though my emotions stand in my way. So rather than trying to get new emotions, I work with them :)

One reason I buy these distant calls is that I want to be aggressive with my cc sales, within a larger income objective. To make something up reasonably close to the current environment - if I sold cc's that go ITM, so I roll them (for strike improvement), and they again go ITM, etc.. Eventually getting to a 750 strike while the shares go to 800 and keep going, I'll "take assignment" (sell the leap, BTC the cc), knowing that the leap will be profitable AND I'll keep all of the CC premiums I collected. That will be GREAT from an income perspective. And SUCK from a capital gain perspective (I missed out on the additional share price rise past $750 to at least some degree).

But I'm in it for income, so that's a great outcome for me.


The emotion is this. I get attached to my shares, and I'm finding that I get attached to my longest dated calls also. With that attachment comes bad decisions designed to keep from giving those up (like rolling when I'm deep ITM, hoping real hard that the shares come back).

So my plan is to hold two 'classes' of purchased calls. I don't really know the proportion yet, though it's around 3 closer / 1 later in one account, and 50/50 in a second.
1) The shorter dated calls are ones that I'm emotionally able to take assignment on, pretty easily. I can be really aggressive with the CC sales against these and if/when they get called away, I'm totally good with that (great income!) and I'll decide then what to do. Stay in cash to back more put spreads, or buy replacement calls and sell more CC.

2) The longer dated calls are share replacements. As such I'm selling reasonably aggressive calls, but not as aggressive (that's the theory anyway), and I'll work harder to avoid assignment, while STILL being ready and willing to take assignment. I know that I'm more willing to have these assigned than shares, and that's really my goal - actually being ready to take assignment, so I don't feel backed into a corner trying to avoid selling my shares.


What that means for me, in practice.
- I started this off with those December 2021 500 strike calls. My thinking was to minimize the cost of each call I purchases while still buying multiple months of CC sales. It's worked but I only bought these 6 months out and I plan to close these at 3 months to go, so that I minimize the time decay I'm paying for. I won't buy this close again - I'll be farther out.
-- I'll probably aim for 9-12 months out when I replace these calls with something new. This is what I'm thinking right now. A 9 month option gives me 6 months of CC sales and the 12 month option gives me 9 months of CC sales. That sounds better than a 6 month option providing 3 months of CC sales.
-- These are my aggressive calls, with intent to be taunting the share price, daring to push me deep enough ITM to take assignment instead of continuing to roll. I'll miss out on a lot of capital gains when this happens, but I'm in it for income, and the income will be great before it happens, and even better in assignment.
-- I don't know what my actual ownership window will be. And I might even lose money on the purchased call when I replace them with new. Whatever happens with the long dated call is pretty much ok with me - I'm getting roughly $10/week right now selling the CC, so 3 months / 10 weeks provides for a pretty big range of positive outcomes (I am assuming I'm in the market 10 weeks per quarter now; that leaves me some latitude in what I actually do).

- I also bought June 2023 300 strike calls. They were so far ITM that I paid something like $50 or $60 for the time value up front. I could buy 2 of these for roughly the price of 100 shares, so I got some leveraged exposure to moves up in the share price (roughly .9 delta each, so 1.8 delta total). And I can sell these with about 3 months to go and get back 1/2 of that time value, making these even cheaper to own.
-- OH - and once I'm past a 12 month ownership window, in the brokerage account, these will get long term capital gains treatment.
-- I'll be much more focused on rolling for strike improvement over credits with these as these are share replacements.
-- WHILE also being much more willing to take assignment than I am with shares. I am REALLY attached to my shares, even when that isn't the best financial choice :)


The option you're looking at: 0622 C350 @$360. The way I analyze that is that with the sahres at $680 you are buying $330 worth of intrinsic value, which leaves $30 in time value. Paying $30 time value for 11 or 12 months on the option sounds like a sweet deal to me. That option will probably be down to around $10-20 in time value with 3 months to go, so your actual time value you're paying for is more like $10.

Unless of course the shares take off - you might be getting effectively no time value when you sell, but that's because the shares are at $1000 and the option is worth more like $650 than the $360 you bought it for. That's an ok outcome :)

I also like that strike because the likelihood that will go ITM is extraordinarily low. I like only selling lcc against ITM calls so I want a strike I am very confident (>99%) it won't go ITM.

I might also look at the June 2022 500 strike at $243ish. I'm buying $180 intrinsic value and therefore $63 of time value. I'm getting a bit more leverage at .80 delta instead of .92 delta. That's pretty close to 3 calls for 100 shares and with some extra cash I might be able to get a 4th long dated call in a position where I want to be more aggressive with the sales.

For myself with shares in the 600s I don't think I get closer than the 500 strike. At the 600 strike I think that the likelihood of a pull back that pushes me ITM is too high.
Dude, I hadn't even read half-way through before I'd forgotten what you were replying to 😄
 
I really like the idea of BTO lcc's ITM or DITM in my retirement account and then STO cc's against those. I'm hoping others are doing this as well as I'd like to learn about their experience.
This is what I'm doing - I'm staying fairly far ITM (300 and 500 strike so far, at different expirations). The first ah-hah is it's enabling me to sell more covered calls. Roughly 2:1 when I go to a reasonably far ITM strike that costs ~1/2 of buying shares :) And I get some delta leverage as well - I think around 1.6x of buying the shares. So 2x the CC and 1.6x the delta by using max date DITM leaps.

As a for-instance using closing prices from Friday the 400 strike June 2023 leap costs $345-$363 (the bid/ask spreads on these are wicked). Let's call it $350 for easy math - spend $70k to buy 2 of these vs. $68k to buy 100 shares. These are .87 delta so the equivalent of 174 shares (.87 delta * 200 shares). And you're paying about $70 in time value ($280 intrinsic value, leaving $70 for the time value) and get 2 years to sell options.

I think that the 600 strike is as close as I would come right now. Those cost $245/share with a .73 delta. 5 of these costs ~$125k ($24500 * 5) while 200 shares will cost ~$140k. You get .73*5 = 365 share equivalents instead of 200 shares and the ability to sell 5 lcc instead of 2 cc.

Heck - that's close enough we'll throw on a 6th call :). $24500 * 6 = $147k vs $140k providing 438 share equivalents instead of 200, and 6 lcc vs 2.


The closer to the money the long dated calls come, the more leverage you're putting into the position. One manifestation of that leverage is that the .73 delta will be going up as the share price goes up (faster than the .87 in the first for-instance). It might be .9 by the time the share price is $800. You'd have 540 share equivalents then vs. the 200 shares, or the 438 you started with.

Of course leverage is a double bladed weapon - I find that I'm ok with using some leverage, but I also like to keep it to a pretty moderate level compared to what I could otherwise take on.
 
Bullet point summary at start of the message ? Definitely keep content though
Responding to the question about lcc, and why shorter vs. longer expirations.

I get emotionally attached to shares and to longer dated calls. I like the longest dated calls, but I don't want to be too emotionally attached to them (so I can take assignment more easily).


My solution - buy some of the longest dated, and some more mid-range, calls. The mid-range are more like 12 months(ish). I'm still figuring out what shorter durations I like - I know its more than 6 months. And I can easily imagine exclusively using the max dated calls to minimize the monthly cost to own the call. Which is to say that I don't know yet.

Sidebar: I'm playing this duration thingy by ear right now. I'm hoping to get this dynamic into a backtest and then be able to play with different duration long calls to see where I get results I like the most.


@Lycanthrope makes a good case for being much closer ATM with the longest duration calls in his own post.
 
Responding to the question about lcc, and why shorter vs. longer expirations.

I get emotionally attached to shares and to longer dated calls. I like the longest dated calls, but I don't want to be too emotionally attached to them (so I can take assignment more easily).


My solution - buy some of the longest dated, and some more mid-range, calls. The mid-range are more like 12 months(ish). I'm still figuring out what shorter durations I like - I know its more than 6 months. And I can easily imagine exclusively using the max dated calls to minimize the monthly cost to own the call. Which is to say that I don't know yet.

Sidebar: I'm playing this duration thingy by ear right now. I'm hoping to get this dynamic into a backtest and then be able to play with different duration long calls to see where I get results I like the most.


@Lycanthrope makes a good case for being much closer ATM with the longest duration calls in his own post.
This is what I'm doing - I'm staying fairly far ITM (300 and 500 strike so far, at different expirations). The first ah-hah is it's enabling me to sell more covered calls. Roughly 2:1 when I go to a reasonably far ITM strike that costs ~1/2 of buying shares :) And I get some delta leverage as well - I think around 1.6x of buying the shares. So 2x the CC and 1.6x the delta by using max date DITM leaps.

As a for-instance using closing prices from Friday the 400 strike June 2023 leap costs $345-$363 (the bid/ask spreads on these are wicked). Let's call it $350 for easy math - spend $70k to buy 2 of these vs. $68k to buy 100 shares. These are .87 delta so the equivalent of 174 shares (.87 delta * 200 shares). And you're paying about $70 in time value ($280 intrinsic value, leaving $70 for the time value) and get 2 years to sell options.

I think that the 600 strike is as close as I would come right now. Those cost $245/share with a .73 delta. 5 of these costs ~$125k ($24500 * 5) while 200 shares will cost ~$140k. You get .73*5 = 365 share equivalents instead of 200 shares and the ability to sell 5 lcc instead of 2 cc.

Heck - that's close enough we'll throw on a 6th call :). $24500 * 6 = $147k vs $140k providing 438 share equivalents instead of 200, and 6 lcc vs 2.


The closer to the money the long dated calls come, the more leverage you're putting into the position. One manifestation of that leverage is that the .73 delta will be going up as the share price goes up (faster than the .87 in the first for-instance). It might be .9 by the time the share price is $800. You'd have 540 share equivalents then vs. the 200 shares, or the 438 you started with.

Of course leverage is a double bladed weapon - I find that I'm ok with using some leverage, but I also like to keep it to a pretty moderate level compared to what I could otherwise take on.
Great info! Ok, I'm going to try my hand at an ITM lcc next week in my retirement account. If it pops I may just stay with my weeklies for now.
 
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Ouch, what a week for call sellers. Here’s my tale:

Sold CCs early and closed for $6k profit right after the earnings IV & SP drop. Great, take the win and go home, but….no….I took the bait, reloaded and sold some more CCs, which were then completely destroyed, to the tune of a $15k loss. Damn, why did I decide to get greedy? I can easily live on $2k/wk, so $6k is just avarice.

Fortunately, in my larger accounts I had sold p640s, p645s, and p650s as protection for my CCs, so was able to buyback the puts, release the securing cash, and buyback the calls at the $15k loss. These puts generated massive profits even though I had to buyback some that would have expired worthless (STO p650@ $29 & BTC @$2.60, STO p645@$9.07 & BTC@$0.80).:cool:

Overall managed to eek out a nice profit for the week, almost all from puts. Unfortunately, had to roll some stupid c665s to 8/06 -c685s. These are in my smallest account and I had to buyback one, roll, buyback another, roll…… Stupid mistake selling calls on this account because there’s not enough cash buffer. I’ve now done this multiple times, so just a warning to others. I’ll probably lose these shares next week unless there’s a SP pause (doubtful). If I’m lucky, I’ll somehow manage to roll another week. Sigh.

I’ve decided to wait on reselling calls for awhile, licking my wounds, until after the annual meeting. Perhaps I might try to skim off $1/shr on Friday once MaxPain has declared itself, or maybe sell $100 OTM. Also, converted some of the puts cash into shares because I’m afraid of falling off the wheel. Still have a significant amount of cash in the two largest accounts, and rolled a couple puts to 8/06 p650s & p680s, so lots of options. I might sell another “I dare you” put (690? 700?) at the MMD just for fun.