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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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i keep reading everywhere that the biggest Wheel risk is sp crashing (ie assigned 920 and sp fell to 750) and that makes the CC leg useless so there are only 3 choices:
  • keep selling 920CC for pennies
  • do nothing like a HODLer (no CC income that week)
  • sell 800CC (or breakeven point) and really hope it expires
LIGHT BULB and BREAKING NEWS : why can't i just sell -c920/+c1020 BCS ?!? (assume don't use new margin room)

suddenly, we are making $$$ again on down macros... and wheel legs are "CSP - straddle - BCS" or "CSP - BCS"
 
i keep reading everywhere that the biggest Wheel risk is sp crashing (ie assigned 920 and sp fell to 750) and that makes the CC leg useless so there are only 3 choices:
  • keep selling 920CC for pennies
  • do nothing like a HODLer (no CC income that week)
  • sell 800CC (or breakeven point) and really hope it expires
LIGHT BULB and BREAKING NEWS : why can't i just sell -c920/+c1020 BCS ?!? (assume don't use new margin room)

suddenly, we are making $$$ again on down macros... and wheel legs are "CSP - straddle - BCS" or "CSP - BCS"

I would think the risk with that, due to current high volatility, is having 1-2 days like we did yesterday in a row. Or a Hertz announcement and the fuse gets lit on the TSLA rocket.

Not advice, your track record is FAR superior to mine in this area.
 
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I decided to create this thread as a more focused variation of the Option Trading and Advice thread, with that focus on the option strategy known as The Wheel.

The thing to understand up front - I'm not a financial advisor, nor am I particularly expert in options trading. So far my experience is almost completely in the options selling side. My forays into option buying either ended in large losses, or are currently losing (index puts). But the option selling has worked great for me!

My first and strongest recommendation - if you're new to options trading, or haven't studied it systematically, then I commend the training here:
Free Options Trading Course from Option Alpha | Option Alpha

This took me about 30 hours to go through all of it (1.25x speed worked great for me). And I urge you not to skimp.

This is both general option trading education, along with education about a particular option trading strategy (selling volatility). You're going through that material for the general education, and you'll pick up information about that particular strategy at the same time (it happens to make use of the same edge in the market as The Wheel).

From here on, I'm assuming the level of knowledge conveyed in that linked education.

Here's a link to the FAQ / Glossary thread.

adiggs in April 2020: Hey guys we should do The Wheel

everyone in Jan 2021: Ooh selling covered calls looks interesting.

everyone in May 2021: Ooh selling puts is fun

September 2021: Ooh BPS is even more fun!
October 2021: Ooh lets tack on a BCS on that trade!
November 2021: Have you tried this Iron Flying Pigeon trade?

[stock tanks 40% in unpredictable fashion]

everyone April 2022: You know I think I like this "The Wheel" idea.
 
i keep reading everywhere that the biggest Wheel risk is sp crashing (ie assigned 920 and sp fell to 750) and that makes the CC leg useless so there are only 3 choices:
  • keep selling 920CC for pennies
  • do nothing like a HODLer (no CC income that week)
  • sell 800CC (or breakeven point) and really hope it expires
LIGHT BULB and BREAKING NEWS : why can't i just sell -c920/+c1020 BCS ?!? (assume don't use new margin room)

suddenly, we are making $$$ again on down macros... and wheel legs are "CSP - straddle - BCS" or "CSP - BCS"

How does selling the -920/+1020 BCS help?
 
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adiggs in April 2020: Hey guys we should do The Wheel

everyone in Jan 2021: Ooh selling covered calls looks interesting.

everyone in May 2021: Ooh selling puts is fun

September 2021: Ooh BPS is even more fun!
October 2021: Ooh lets tack on a BCS on that trade!
November 2021: Have you tried this Iron Flying Pigeon trade?

[stock tanks 40% in unpredictable fashion]

everyone April 2022: You know I think I like this "The Wheel" idea.
Haha true but I think there were a few posters in this thread who stuck to the wheel for the most part. I did not even know what BPS meant until November/December. I did not get burned by Hertz BCS but BPS for sure. It wiped out 3-4 months of my typical gains from selling CSP.

BPS/BCS seem like good ideas for beer money but not for feeding your kids lol.
 
adiggs in April 2020: Hey guys we should do The Wheel

everyone in Jan 2021: Ooh selling covered calls looks interesting.

everyone in May 2021: Ooh selling puts is fun

September 2021: Ooh BPS is even more fun!
October 2021: Ooh lets tack on a BCS on that trade!
November 2021: Have you tried this Iron Flying Pigeon trade?

[stock tanks 40% in unpredictable fashion]

everyone April 2022: You know I think I like this "The Wheel" idea.
haha a full circle indeed
 
@Yoona I am surprised to see you abandon your CPS and BCS strategy . From the looks of it you were making a killing even in this rough market over the past 2 months. Did you have a bad experience with a trade?
i had a tiny 3/25 BPS x5 -p700/+p900 that i closed way too early for 30k loss

that was on day 1 of this st*pid war

i panicked

didn't realize and should have analyzed better that it was more than a month out to expiration - what was i thinking

so now i am gun-shy on every single thing

since then, i moved out 80% of cash to a non-trading acct as extreme capital preservation strategy
 
LIGHT BULB and BREAKING NEWS : why can't i just sell -c920/+c1020 BCS ?!? (assume don't use new margin room)

suddenly, we are making $$$ again on down macros... and wheel legs are "CSP - straddle - BCS" or "CSP - BCS"
If you sell one, you're making even less money.
If you sell multiple, your shares hedge only one contract...
 
i keep reading everywhere that the biggest Wheel risk is sp crashing (ie assigned 920 and sp fell to 750) and that makes the CC leg useless so there are only 3 choices:
  • keep selling 920CC for pennies
  • do nothing like a HODLer (no CC income that week)
  • sell 800CC (or breakeven point) and really hope it expires
LIGHT BULB and BREAKING NEWS : why can't i just sell -c920/+c1020 BCS ?!? (assume don't use new margin room)

suddenly, we are making $$$ again on down macros... and wheel legs are "CSP - straddle - BCS" or "CSP - BCS"
Now that's an interesting idea. Let the 920cc transition to BCS as the share price goes lower and lower.

The thing about the 920cc is that you own shares at $920. To sell the BCS you'll need cash so that's one issue. I suppose that you could use the margin provided by the share ownership though that will limit you to margin accounts for this (US retirement accounts don't have that available). Ignoring that cash constraint then I can see the possibilities. What makes that work is levering up - selling many more BCS than the cc's you'd be selling. That leverage is where incremental gains will come from. Without levering up (selling 4 call spreads vs 1 covered call for example) then the call spread is just a way of spending $$ on insurance that is otherwise unnecessary.

As you get closer and closer to that 920 price on the way back up, you would shift to fewer and fewer call spread contracts until you're back to purely CC from 920 and above. I hope you'll work out what you're thinking in more detail and post about it!


So very, very many permutations. As long as there are spreads in the mix, and the spreads are being used to open more positions than would otherwise be opened, then the risks and rewards of leverage are present.


Also worth noting that the wheel risk runs in both directions. The risk on an upward move is you end up selling shares at much less than the share price at the time. Its an opportunity cost risk but it also means your put sales at the time might be at a higher strike than you sell at. If assigned on the puts then you end up selling high, buying higher on that round trip, possibly meaning that you end up with fewer positions you can sell options against.

With my low $/contract/week target I can be a lot less aggressive than recent choices have been (like that $6 credit for 800 strike puts for this week - I could go much further OTM for $3 for instance, and still hitting the income target). Those much wider strikes lowers income while also reducing risk.
 
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I did not realize that the wheel involved selling additional puts even if the earlier ones are exercised. So that's how you stay in the game even if you get exercised but then the stock continues to drop to the point where the call premium is minimal. Of course, there's a limit to how many puts one can sell.
I’ve really been testing this straight up wheel with my HSA account. I just opened it and I am wheeling AMC. Will see how it ends up at the end of the year. It’s down a good bit right now.
 
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I’ve really been testing this straight up wheel with my HSA account. I just opened it and I am wheeling AMC. Will see how it ends up at the end of the year. It’s down a good bit right now.

The wheel works when the SP travels on the road(kinda range bound ... slow movement...), the wheel does not work when the SP flies ... big gap up or down ... once the SP has landed the wheel will work again .... ;) cheers!!
 
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I'm not ready to give up on BPS yet. I still think they can be done with relative safety and have a place in our toolbox. Here are the guidelines I use:

- Only opened on a strong down move (even then, trying to pick the best intra-day entry, this makes a huge difference).
- 20% OTM
- Only selling a small amount of total possible (like 20% of margin max)
- Lots of cash reserves
- 3-10 DTE

These rules have gotten me through the Elon selling crash and the growth stock/war crashes. If BPS can work in these extreme conditions, they should work if "normal" conditions ever return.

I've also abandoned weekly profit goals. I found that having this goal pressured me to make trades that were not ideal. Now, I take what the market gives me, and when there are no good setups, I sit out. No income is better than a potential loss.
 
I'm not ready to give up on BPS yet. I still think they can be done with relative safety and have a place in our toolbox. Here are the guidelines I use:

- Only opened on a strong down move (even then, trying to pick the best intra-day entry, this makes a huge difference).
- 20% OTM
- Only selling a small amount of total possible (like 20% of margin max)
- Lots of cash reserves
- 3-10 DTE

These rules have gotten me through the Elon selling crash and the growth stock/war crashes. If BPS can work in these extreme conditions, they should work if "normal" conditions ever return.

I've also abandoned weekly profit goals. I found that having this goal pressured me to make trades that were not ideal. Now, I take what the market gives me, and when there are no good setups, I sit out. No income is better than a potential loss.
That's where I'm trending towards as well when evaluating how to proceed after recovery from recent SP volatility.

It's a point @adiggs made multiple times: the timing of the entry into a position is 50% of the success of the trade. This doesn't mean timing the market per se, just that it's wiser to sell puts (CSP or BPS, same theory) on a dip and selling calls on a rally.

This can be difficult if one's objective is a steady income no matter how the market moves, since this is contrary to any strategy in which one (for example) opens a new BPS every Thursday for the coming week (6 DTE).

It's better to wait for a decent setup (for example a down day after a down day), this greatly increases the chance of the sold options to end up OTM. At least you could tweak an income related strategy to only sell against 10% of available cash weekly (at safe strikes of +20%/+25% OTM) but upon a decent setup one opens extra positions against say 20% of cash.

This would grant a very tiny (safe-ish) income at all times and more returns once in a while to prop up the income.

Of course if no regular income is needed it could be best to wait for a good set-up every time. I think that is where I'll be going with my cash strategy.

I'm currently holding:
- stocks;
- LEAPS;
- cash, of which 75% is tied to open BPS expiring now to JAN 2024 (saved a lot by rolling).

Where I'd like to be by JAN 2024:

- stocks;
- LEAPS or not, depends on SP. I'd like to swing trade these going between ATH and huge drops.
- cash to use for CSP / BPS and wheel if puts are assigned.

With the cash I got into a mindset of "I must open positions against this cash or else I'm missing out on possible income" but given the above I believe one makes as much money or more by just waiting for opportunities.

Rarely we see 2 weeks in a row of the SP moving solely in one direction. And one can shoot for higher premiums by selling only 10 or 15% OTM after multiple down days. I should repeat that to myself whenever I think of the missed opportunities by being all in cash.

There's no rush. Slowly but surely increasing capital is better than huge swings, putting the entire portfolio on the line every time.
 
BTC my 3/4 900c @5.2 (BTO earlier this week @12.5).

My previous post and this trade made me again realize why we have the options thread in the first place. (Disregarding those that want to generate income)

For me at least, I want to be able to grow my portfolio even when the SP drops or stays flat, contrary to HODLING.

The only alternative to options (with this goal in mind) is swing trading shares, but that seems risky too. A combination of HODL, swing trading shares or LEAPS and options selling seems a good "spread" (no pun intended) to ensure a succesful bankroll in 10/20 years time but also generating cash on the way there.
 
I'm not ready to give up on BPS yet. I still think they can be done with relative safety and have a place in our toolbox. Here are the guidelines I use:

- Only opened on a strong down move (even then, trying to pick the best intra-day entry, this makes a huge difference).
- 20% OTM
- Only selling a small amount of total possible (like 20% of margin max)
- Lots of cash reserves
- 3-10 DTE

These rules have gotten me through the Elon selling crash and the growth stock/war crashes. If BPS can work in these extreme conditions, they should work if "normal" conditions ever return.

I've also abandoned weekly profit goals. I found that having this goal pressured me to make trades that were not ideal. Now, I take what the market gives me, and when there are no good setups, I sit out. No income is better than a potential loss.
If you only use 20% of backing, what's the point of the spread?

Could just sell cash secured puts with less risk and similar premiums..
 
Looking for some advice/not advice now that we have bottomed. I have some Jan 2024 850 puts I want to pull back closer to expiry so I can close them out, free margin, and continue selling 20% OTM puts.

Best way to do this? My thought was to either roll them all forward to like August 900 or individually roll one back and open 5 new ones closer to now? Or do I just wait for a big move up and then roll them closer?

Thoughts?