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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Just got back from a three hour bike ride. Unfortunately nobody hit me to put me out of my misery....

Nice to see the SP up today. Any predictions for next week? I'm trying to decide if I sell more 800 Strike CC for Jun 2024 today (which limits future gains but gives me some margin protection).

I think the near term upside is limited. Q2 is concerning and macro situation is - well, you know. Maybe get some support if the next inflation report is well received.

Today I sold 6/25 $660 cc against most of my shares for $21.68 and used the proceeds to close one bps and buy enough shares to reach the next 100.

I know there is a chance that we race to $900 from here but that is less if a problem for me than going under $600. Even deeply underwater CCs can be rolled indefinitely with gradual strike improvement. I’ll never go broke that way.

it’s a better problem to have, was my judgment. I would avoid going too far out in time as it becomes harder to reel them in in case of a recovery

My *guess* for next weeks range is $620-$750
 
I think the near term upside is limited. Q2 is concerning and macro situation is - well, you know. Maybe get some support if the next inflation report is well received.

Today I sold 6/25 $660 cc against most of my shares for $21.68 and used the proceeds to close one bps and buy enough shares to reach the next 100.

I know there is a chance that we race to $900 from here but that is less if a problem for me than going under $600. Even deeply underwater CCs can be rolled indefinitely with gradual strike improvement. I’ll never go broke that way.

it’s a better problem to have, was my judgment. I would avoid going too far out in time as it becomes harder to reel them in in case of a recovery

My *guess* for next weeks range is $620-$750
Yeah, I sold 20 more Jun 2024 800CC. If we start to rally I can buy shares with stop loss orders (to sell those shares if the price reverses) so that I don't actually loose core shares in 2024. I'm hoping the last week of June going into Q2 P&D report gives some support. Of course the first week of July could be a blood bath if the numbers aren't good. I need to be ready. So far I'm not closing the BPSs. I'm just trying to get more and more cash to increase my margin, and to give myself cash to roll them in a few months if I have to roll for debit. I don't know if that is the wrong strategy. Closing them feels like I'm just throwing money away without improving my margin very much since they are near max loss.
 
Not to pick on you, but I’m wondering if you might be questioning your CC closes yesterday vs today. I did something similar, and have now realized how much I left on the table. If we do close below $650, of course not a certainty, then there would be $9 unrealized on those c650s. In any case, there was another $4-$5 loss overnight that was unrealized. Furthermore, the premium difference between yesterday and today for next weeks c700s is only ~$0.30. Again, not a nitpick, just trying to learn something from everyone and your conservative trades and situation are more similar to mine. What I’ve learned from your trade, it’s now obvious that 2x more profit came from the lower, riskier 650CC than the 680CC. These buy-writes instead of puts are definitely something to consider. Thanks.

FWIW, there must’ve been a large IV drop after the FOMC meeting (which we should all have known was coming). All my puts and calls are down significantly. Similarly, the 7/8 +800c that I bought at a $20 lower SP is now 15% lower than what I paid (near yesterday’s low SP).:mad:


With all the cathartic posts of late, I decided to look back as well. My portfolio is down 35% since the Nov 4th ATH, which should probably be viewed as a positive. Since then TSLA is down 50% and the S&P 20%. Most of my trades have been CCs and CSPs, with a few sporadic call purchases thrown in, all within my IRAs. These are the largest paper losses that I’ve ever experienced and it does sting. However, since investing in TSLA these are also the largest paper gains I’ve ever seen. For now, I too have put off large life decisions and purchases. I have doubled down on food gardening to feed my family and neighbors so that we can all enjoy the better things in life. Peace and better times to everyone. P.S. If anyone needs fresh tomatoes this summer…….;)
Interesting questions.

Regarding the closes yesterday vs. today, not questioning them in the least. Then again once I make a trade the only question I ask myself later is whether there was something I knew, when I made the trade, that I would use in the future to make the trade differently. Its more of a process thing for me, rather than optimizing an individual trade.

In that context, yesterday's closes ticked off all my boxes for an early close:
- high % gain (not much of a motivator, but it does help to know how much is left to earn)
- high absolute gain. More of a motivator
- big drop in the share price (close cc's on down days)
- closing early also enables an open on the next up day that is frequently the next day (never open a replacement position on a day where a position is closed)
- in this case, since the uptick rule got triggered, today being flat to up was nearly guaranteed in my mind. At the least a big down day wasn't in the offing.

I also used market orders for all of those opens and closes - once I've decided I like the new position (opening or closing), I just do it and don't sweat the pennies. The market orders frequently get me the mid point, and that is plenty good for me. I've explained the logic elsewhere.


Anyway - by closing yesterday at really high % gains I had no overnight thought or worry about today. I expected an up day - I was hoping for a bigger move up today. The only reason for the expectation was the big move down plus the fact it reached 10% / triggered the uptick rule. Little or no stomach acid is a biggie for me, and I'm finding the buy-writes to work REALLY REALLY well for me in this regard.

On a bigger move up I would have been able to open an even better strike and/or premium. And the $7.50ish open is a great position for me. If I close at 2/3rds then that'll be a $5 realized result for next week. And the 700 strike, even if it gets overrun, means I'll take a $20 loss when I sell the shares. I'll have collected north of $70 over the 4 weeks for a net $50 plus the $7 - $57 over 4 weeks makes for some excellent dividend like result action.

Oh - and I was closing 650s and 680s - now I have 700s (lots better strike) for next week.


In summary - for dividend like income this week has worked out great. Next week is lined up to be great, and as this is cash I would otherwise be using to sell cash secured puts, I'm not nearly as attached to the shares as I would otherwise be. If we go to 700ish next week then I'd probably roll to $10 or $20 OTM but if we get to 750 or 800ish then I just well the shares when I close the cc's and am excited about the net result ($20 share loss, $70+ premiums). And I'll even be happy having that cash again :)

If somehow we drifted up week to week then I'd have the best of all worlds - a steadily improving cc strike as well as big weekly credits.

More likely we'll have a sharp move up that will push time value close to 0 - I'll use that as an early close opportunity, watch the share price drop the next day, and start a new buy-write.
 
very tempted to daytrade 660 straddle $50 3 DTE

imagine getting even just $10 from that
almost bullseye 3 days ago...

Fri Close is only off by $10 and easy $40 profit, 3 DTE

in other news: today's Close is the PM High (just off by 28 CENTS)
1655496090862.png


today's buy/write is -c650 (take my shares, i don't care)
 
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Tried to walk the line between LEAPs and YOLOs today as I found myself with the last few weeks of BPS selling proceeds sitting in cash. Bought a handful of 11/19 $1200c around $11.30 to add to my pile and average down to something more respectable.

I simply can't sit here and not Mule out just a little bit while MM's hold us down to $650 for triple witching. When we hit $840 in a few weeks I'll sell the contracts I bought today. Because I'm an adult.

Enjoy the long weekend y'all. Go buy a barrel of oil, they're 7% off today!
 
Enjoy the long weekend y'all. Go buy a barrel of oil, they're 7% off today!
Honestly, I think the price of oil/gasoline is the single biggest problem right now. If that starts coming down I think the stock market will rally as the cost of everything that gets shipped (which is almost everything) will start to come down. 🤞
 
I think the near term upside is limited. Q2 is concerning and macro situation is - well, you know. Maybe get some support if the next inflation report is well received.

Today I sold 6/25 $660 cc against most of my shares for $21.68 and used the proceeds to close one bps and buy enough shares to reach the next 100.

I know there is a chance that we race to $900 from here but that is less if a problem for me than going under $600. Even deeply underwater CCs can be rolled indefinitely with gradual strike improvement. I’ll never go broke that way.

it’s a better problem to have, was my judgment. I would avoid going too far out in time as it becomes harder to reel them in in case of a recovery

My *guess* for next weeks range is $620-$750
I was going through a similar thought process, is it better to get margin called, or deal with rolling CCs or missed gains, and I decided that rolling is the less of the 2 evil's, you have a chance of keeping the shares, vs losing everything in a margin call situation.
 
I decided to cut possibly future losses and closed my GOOGL position yesterday.
It was +c2400 for september, I've been selling cc:s against it and was pretty much breakeven.

I know the split is coming, but was just getting worried on theta running out.. and there's a good chance split won't move the stock much.

Was also stressful to watch two tickers. Now I can focus on TSLA and nothing else.
 
I decided to cut possibly future losses and closed my GOOGL position yesterday.
It was +c2400 for september, I've been selling cc:s against it and was pretty much breakeven.

I know the split is coming, but was just getting worried on theta running out.. and there's a good chance split won't move the stock much.

Was also stressful to watch two tickers. Now I can focus on TSLA and nothing else.
Ha, I bought 5x GOOGL Jan 24 c3000's the day after the split announcement, what a poor judgement that was - expected it to keep going up, but of course quite the opposite has happened... I've sold plenty of calls against them, but many of those went ITM too with the volatility whipsaw and had to be closed at a loss, too complicated to work-out where I stand as a whole... now I'm in the situation where I'm currently too scared write calls against them as I'm expecting the split to finally start having some positive impact - $AMZN rose 20-25% into their split, and Google is a far superior investment, and of course selling calls against a call with a much higher strike also needs some cash/margin allocation, if the short call goes ITM, it has a much higher Delta than the long, so you need to be really careful...

My only consolation is that I'll be able to sell 100x contracts after the split, yes will pay more broker fees for that, but will have a lot more flexibility too

And to add to the general self-pity, my portfolio is around 40% down from the November ATH. I was, at least, smart enough to mostly move to cash in December, but not so smart as to do it when the SP was above $1000 - don't forget we had the Elon Twitter tax/share selling debacle, which is basically what started the decline which has since been exacerbated by the macro shitshow

I find this market extremely tiresome and depressing, takes a huge amount of nervous energy, but I know there are folks been hurt much more than myself, some here included. Brutal.
 
Seeking ideas and non-advise:
  • I have 9/16/22 $1100 and 1/19/24 $1000-$1400 calls purchased near ATH which have dramatically declined in total value.
  • What are the pros and cons of rolling these out and down to a lower quantity to strike prices around the current SP (for a small net cost) and dates like 11/18/22 and 6/21/24?
  • Something like a 5:2 ratio of current quantity to future quantity.
  • The intention is to sell pre-expiry for a profit (or break-even) rather than hold to expiry for additional shares, and these are in a non-taxable account.
The idea is to roll to calls which will more rapidly recover value. I've never done this before so I'm unsure of all the ramifications. Thanks.
 
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10% uptick rule was triggered yesterday. Should today be green or red?

In TSLA history, the rule was triggered 46 times. 56% of the time, next day is green. Average sp rise is 4.14% the next day.

View attachment 818012

View attachment 818017
I'm starting to think the uptick rule's only purpose is keeping hedge funds from shorting so MM's can naked short and/or buy(cover) to move SP even easier.

I mean....is it a coincidence that uptick was triggered the day before triple witching?

You'd think someone would dissect this mess and establish some modern regulation. I don't even think it would be that difficult.
 
Tried to walk the line between LEAPs and YOLOs today as I found myself with the last few weeks of BPS selling proceeds sitting in cash. Bought a handful of 11/19 $1200c around $11.30 to add to my pile and average down to something more respectable.

I simply can't sit here and not Mule out just a little bit while MM's hold us down to $650 for triple witching. When we hit $840 in a few weeks I'll sell the contracts I bought today. Because I'm an adult.

Enjoy the long weekend y'all. Go buy a barrel of oil, they're 7% off today!
forgive the dumb question, i am trying to learn from the best and brightest minds here

i analyzed it to death but still don't get it... why 1200c? (vs 1050c with higher delta, for example)

is it because "half the cost and lower theta"?

1655563996905.png


TIA!
 
Ha, I bought 5x GOOGL Jan 24 c3000's the day after the split announcement, what a poor judgement that was - expected it to keep going up, but of course quite the opposite has happened... I've sold plenty of calls against them, but many of those went ITM too with the volatility whipsaw and had to be closed at a loss, too complicated to work-out where I stand as a whole... now I'm in the situation where I'm currently too scared write calls against them as I'm expecting the split to finally start having some positive impact - $AMZN rose 20-25% into their split, and Google is a far superior investment, and of course selling calls against a call with a much higher strike also needs some cash/margin allocation, if the short call goes ITM, it has a much higher Delta than the long, so you need to be really careful...

My only consolation is that I'll be able to sell 100x contracts after the split, yes will pay more broker fees for that, but will have a lot more flexibility too

And to add to the general self-pity, my portfolio is around 40% down from the November ATH. I was, at least, smart enough to mostly move to cash in December, but not so smart as to do it when the SP was above $1000 - don't forget we had the Elon Twitter tax/share selling debacle, which is basically what started the decline which has since been exacerbated by the macro shitshow

I find this market extremely tiresome and depressing, takes a huge amount of nervous energy, but I know there are folks been hurt much more than myself, some here included. Brutal.
My GOOG options foray was a complete disaster and put me in a margin situation in one of my accounts that was pure TSLA and TSLA sold puts but had lots of margin to use. I cut my losses a few weeks ago but lost almost seven figures just in GOOG for no damn good reason other than I am a moron. Best part is I just kept buying more as it went down... cause I had conviction you know... Had to sell about 1200 shares of TSLA in the 700s just to stabilize the account to avoid liquidation at even lower levels if the carnage continued. Which it has.

🙃

Have started to reestablish a small position in GOOG now as I figure split a lot closer and this has to pop somewhat. Even turd AMZN did. But have been selling some on daily pops just to make a few dollars here and there. Also have loaded up on TSLA JUNE 24 LEAPs to potentially more than replace the shares I lost... of course the SP would have to go up at some point 😂

Honestly, in hindsight the writing was on the wall for all of us to see for a while that the FED wanted to take the market out for a while, certainly since January. I thought about liquidating my TSLA when it as around 1000 on the way down, but for me the unrealized profits are so large in TSLA and about 35% disappears instantly in taxes. So sell at 1000, but to buy back same number of shares I would have to have waited until... now, at a price I thought would and should never happen. I would have never been so disciplined.

Been staying away from CCs mostly as I think they suck right now, but every time I have sold some they have been pure profit. Just not much of it....

We need the core CPI to continue downtrend and market should stabilize for a while. TSLA will power through ahead of the market if TSLA Q3 looks like we all know and assume it will. The problem is TSLA Q2 results which look like they will be ugly and BTC is definitely hurting right now. The attack dogs are already drafting the endless hit pieces of TSLA demand ceiling and downtrend. Hard to see TSLA not taking a further short term beating over the next month.

I wish everyone here the best. Remember, health above all.
 
forgive the dumb question, i am trying to learn from the best and brightest minds here

i analyzed it to death but still don't get it... why 1200c? (vs 1050c with higher delta, for example)

is it because "half the cost and lower theta"?

View attachment 818071

TIA!
Well, while you wait for them...
On a one to one basis, then 1950 looks better, but here is a link to the trade set up as a spread with 2x purchase of 1200 vs 1050 (only $153 debit ) which allows comparison of the two positions on an equivilent cost basis :
TSLA Call Spread calculator
As you can see, double of the 1200s produce more return in the short-medium term. They're near even at $1,100 on Sept 26. Negative return in this case shows when the 1050 outperforms.
SmartSelect_20220618-111643_Firefox.jpg
 
And my logic on $1200c is even simpler than that.

A) I already had some and was sick of looking at the highe avg purchase price 😜

B) That's about where I think we can be on that date. I'm not counting on anything, but I feel there's a rip coming long before Nov, so I'll take more leverage and sell half in a month when we're at 925.
 
I'm starting to think the uptick rule's only purpose is keeping hedge funds from shorting so MM's can naked short and/or buy(cover) to move SP even easier.

I mean....is it a coincidence that uptick was triggered the day before triple witching?

You'd think someone would dissect this mess and establish some modern regulation. I don't even think it would be that difficult.
"Modern regulation" LOL

So many people seem to think everything is manipulation. Sure it exists. But it's not as prevalent as I think people think it is.
Either way, those that think it abounds or those that think it's minimal are only guessing.
The one thing I do know is a lot of " modern regulations" have made things worse instead of better.
Biggest example was getting rid of Glass Stegall and then doing Dodd Frank
 
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Seeking ideas and non-advise:
  • I have 9/16/22 $1100 and 1/19/24 $1000-$1400 calls purchased near ATH which have dramatically declined in total value.
  • What are the pros and cons of rolling these out and down to a lower quantity to strike prices around the current SP (for a small net cost) and dates like 11/18/22 and 6/21/24?
  • Something like a 5:2 ratio of current quantity to future quantity.
  • The intention is to sell pre-expiry for a profit (or break-even) rather than hold to expiry for additional shares, and these are in a non-taxable account.
The idea is to roll to calls which will more rapidly recover value. I've never done this before so I'm unsure of all the ramifications. Thanks.
My first rule of thumb is to never roll for a debit.
Another rule is to not get anxious and try to recover faster. That's a type of desperation play to me and could cause you to take on greater risk which can lead to greater disaster or disaster more quickly.

I too own long calls but mine are LEAPS with lower strikes than yours and they have lost about 50% of their value.
I have more time than you and better strikes so it's easier for me to let them ride and will deal with them in the future even though the theta decay sucks. That doesn't help you for ideas I'm sorry but be careful in pouring good money after bad to try and salvage that position.

Hopefully others have some better ideas for you