Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

[SebastienBonny]

I thought this was funny, not trying to be mean.

The idea is that right now - Tesla is growing 50% per year (slight miss this year - 87% last year) this means production, earnings, new factories, new products (Energy, AI, Bot, etc.) and there isn't anywhere else to get exposure to that much upside outside of Tesla.

Now as we have seen, TSLA can lag or overshoot and it certainly lagged hard last year, but as many including @adiggs have cautioned to be prepared for at least a 50% drop any year.

This means having cash on hand or dry powder to fund living expenses and possibly buy the dip.

Safe dividend ETF's are great if you are older or planning to retire - but if you are still young or in the wealth building stage of life - right now there currently is no "Public" company on earth growing both production and earnings faster than Tesla.

(not advice)

No offence taken what so ever. I think we just have another approach.

I decided last year to get to a number of shares I'm happy with for quite some years.
I didn't try to time the market, because that's impossible (like @Max Plaid said), but for the next 2 years it's possible I won't be adding extra shares, unless the cash position reaches a position higher than 50% of portfolio by trading options and adding monthly cash.

I'm not planning to sell the shares for 10 years, to make things clear, but sometimes you have to consider selling shares as well (sorry if this is swearing ).
For the record: down 50% as well now, so when stock recovers I may be on the ride to the moon as well and totally forgetting about balancing my account.

 

[mickificki]

RIP Peter. Y’all remember it’s only money and your family and friends love you either way

Sorry to bring this up but can someone send me a link or tell me what happened? Thank you.

 

[mongo]

It’s too late to be making these suggestions . The time do this was 12 months ago. There were signs but we focused on the fundamentals of the company and here we are.

The money I don't have from not selling on the way down is the money I wouldn't have had from selling on the way up.

Spoiler: personal introspection

Well...
Other than the calls I bought last year...
And the taxes I had to pay due to Roth conversion...
Nothing like paying taxes on money you no longer have...

Personally, other than being too optimistic and deer-in-headlights (on the up and down), this last split messed up my perception due to the multiple on account movement per dollar share movement.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

[mongo]

Sorry to bring this up but can someone send me a link or tell me what happened? Thank you.

Spoiler: sad

Peter my husband took his own life

 

[UltradoomY]

Same - but I plan to roll for credit once the strike is breeched.

One week for largest credit out of the money

Will do the same all week if it keeps going up, and roll back in if heading down either this week or next.

I want these shares gone but it needs to be over $170 each (technically - $170 - $2.65= $167.35 so far)

STO 01/13 $110 P's for $1.25 each this morning.

 

[Max Plaid]

STO 01/13 $110 P's for $1.25 each this morning.

Great idea, STO 5x @$1.5

 

[OrthoSurg]

One thing I'm thinking about. If some of you went from 100s of thousands of dollars to a couple of million. Why didn't you guys put some in a "safe" world-wide ETF and just enjoy dividends for that part of your portfolio?
It's not like that at the moment, but I plan balancing my portfolio near 25% TSLA, 25% World-wide ETF and 50% cash (for options or opportunities).

Because I would have had to pay 53% taxes on my capital gains from selling and then I would have to find a company that was growing sales and profits 50% annually to reinvest. If you know another profitable, growth company leading its industry with a CEO with an engineering IQ above 200 let me know. I will invest as long as its Social media Twitter IQ is not below 60

 

[SebastienBonny]

Because I would have had to pay 53% taxes on my capital gains from selling and then I would have to find a company that was growing sales and profits 50% annually to reinvest. If you know another profitable, growth company leading its industry with a CEO with an engineering IQ above 200 let me know. I will invest as long as its Social media Twitter IQ is not below 60

Well keep on forgetting you guys have taxes on capital gains.
Up to today, we only pay 0.15% yearly when your account exceeds 1 million (euro).

 

[juanmedina]

One thing I'm thinking about. If some of you went from 100s of thousands of dollars to a couple of million. Why didn't you guys put some in a "safe" world-wide ETF and just enjoy dividends for that part of your portfolio?
It's not like that at the moment, but I plan balancing my portfolio near 25% TSLA, 25% World-wide ETF and 50% cash (for options or opportunities).

Greed is the answer. I always thought Tesla would not go down this much. I have learned the hard way that relying on one stock is not feasible. If and when the stock goes up eventually I will diversify a lot and buy VTI or something like that.

I just saw the news about Peter and I was in shock. He always answered my questions and I follow some of his trades and made money because of him, RIP. Please this be a lesson to all of us; I know we still believe in Tesla long term but take some chips of the table when it makes sense to you for the sake of you and your family. Life is not just about money. I myself look forward to day that I move my investments to index funds and stop trading. Hopefully one day Tesla pays dividends and becomes a more drama free company like Apple in the future.

 

[juanmedina]

Because I would have had to pay 53% taxes on my capital gains from selling and then I would have to find a company that was growing sales and profits 50% annually to reinvest. If you know another profitable, growth company leading its industry with a CEO with an engineering IQ above 200 let me know. I will invest as long as its Social media Twitter IQ is not below 60.

An advisor at E-Trade told me that they could roll my investments into ETF's with having to sell and inquiring taxes. I had no idea about that option; taxes was also one of my reasons for not selling on my after tax account. Is the advisor correct?

 

[Max Plaid]

Well keep on forgetting you guys have taxes on capital gains.
Up to today, we only pay 0.15% yearly when your account exceeds 1 million (euro).

Netherlands?

 

[traxila]

An advisor at E-Trade told me that they could roll my investments into ETF's with having to sell and inquiring taxes. I had no idea about that option; taxes was also one of my reasons for not selling on my after tax account. Is the advisor correct?

A financial advisor told you that you could close a trade with a profit with no tax implications?

 

[SebastienBonny]

Netherlands?

No, Belgium, I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but wouldn't be surprised it would be in line (@SpeedyEddy ?).

 

[kabin]

An advisor at E-Trade told me that they could roll my investments into ETF's with having to sell and inquiring taxes. I had no idea about that option; taxes was also one of my reasons for not selling on my after tax account. Is the advisor correct?

'without having to sell...'?

I'm not in the business but it seems very unlikely. A capital gains is a capital gains. Selling a stock for a profit and buying it back doesn't negate the capital gains. Selling a stock for a profit and rolling into a tax free muni bond still creates a capital gains although future capital gains would be different.

 

[Max Plaid]

No, Belgium, I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but wouldn't be surprised it would be in line (@SpeedyEddy ?).

Ah, well in principle there's no tax due on personal trading accounts as long as you operate as a "good housefather", which is very vague and open to interpretation depending on a whole host of factors

But OK, not really a discussion for the whole forum...

 

[BornToFly]

On the bright side, my 125CC for Friday are looking better....

 

[SebastienBonny]

On the bright side, my 125CC for Friday are looking better....

Yes, what a difference a day makes. but closing them at these levels is obviously too early (only at 30ish% profit now).

 

[traxila]

Well keep on forgetting you guys have taxes on capital gains.
Up to today, we only pay 0.15% yearly when your account exceeds 1 million (euro).

Orthosurg's problem is mine to a lesser extent as well.

Even with long term capital gains at 23.8%, I also have the state and city to worry about which brings me to 36% or so tax rate. Meanwhile I was sitting on HUGE capital gains, so large that I considered renting luxury in Florida for a year just to sell stock, but there was no way in the end. I have businesses and a family.

I could have sold and just paid the taxes. I knew it was overvalued at 400. I sold CCs like mad at the time. But I did not want to sell stock as I still believe that Tesla is on the way to a multi trillion dollar valuation. Just needs some time. So now I have to believe that I will sell at 400 and pay the 36% on what was 90%+ profit so I could time the market and rebuy. Which means I would have to rebuy around 270 JUST TO BREAK EVEN on the shares that I was then holding.

SO the SP goes down to 270. It still looked toppy. OK, sell at 270 to, buy back at 180 to BREAK EVEN.

An so on all the way down. I tried to monetize the position through playing the house, but obviously I did this badly.

When I read about countries that simply have a small asset tax like 0.15%, I am jealous at the thought of being able to liquidate in times of uncertainty with no consequences.

 

[TSLA Siempre]

Orthosurg's problem is mine to a lesser extent as well.

Even with long term capital gains at 23.8%, I also have the state and city to worry about which brings me to 36% or so tax rate. Meanwhile I was sitting on HUGE capital gains, so large that I considered renting luxury in Florida for a year just to sell stock, but there was no way in the end. I have businesses and a family.

I could have sold and just paid the taxes. I knew it was overvalued at 400. I sold CCs like mad at the time. But I did not want to sell stock as I still believe that Tesla is on the way to a multi trillion dollar valuation. Just needs some time. So now I have to believe that I will sell at 400 and pay the 36% on what was 90%+ profit so I could time the market and rebuy. Which means I would have to rebuy around 270 JUST TO BREAK EVEN on the shares that I was then holding.

SO the SP goes down to 270. It still looked toppy. OK, sell at 270 to, buy back at 180 to BREAK EVEN.

An so on all the way down. I tried to monetize the position through playing the house, but obviously I did this badly.

When I read about countries that simply have a small asset tax like 0.15%, I am jealous at the thought of being able to liquidate in times of uncertainty with no consequences.

Yeah. Similar psychology at play for me over the last year. Learned the "Don't let the tax tail wave the investment dog" lesson for the future. Although, as I mentioned in another thread, I am pretty sure I would have bought back in after selling, because "there is no way TSLA can go down further" mentality as it hit each successive low.

 

[CHGolferJim]

Orthosurg's problem is mine to a lesser extent as well.

Even with long term capital gains at 23.8%, I also have the state and city to worry about which brings me to 36% or so tax rate. Meanwhile I was sitting on HUGE capital gains, so large that I considered renting luxury in Florida for a year just to sell stock, but there was no way in the end. I have businesses and a family.

I could have sold and just paid the taxes. I knew it was overvalued at 400. I sold CCs like mad at the time. But I did not want to sell stock as I still believe that Tesla is on the way to a multi trillion dollar valuation. Just needs some time. So now I have to believe that I will sell at 400 and pay the 36% on what was 90%+ profit so I could time the market and rebuy. Which means I would have to rebuy around 270 JUST TO BREAK EVEN on the shares that I was then holding.

SO the SP goes down to 270. It still looked toppy. OK, sell at 270 to, buy back at 180 to BREAK EVEN.

An so on all the way down. I tried to monetize the position through playing the house, but obviously I did this badly.

When I read about countries that simply have a small asset tax like 0.15%, I am jealous at the thought of being able to liquidate in times of uncertainty with no consequences.

Easy to say when you’re older (like me), but it is always (I believe, and particularly now) advisable to hodl/shift TSLA into tax-free accounts as much as possible.

Personally, I‘m going to look into stop loss strategies and probably max $ exposure once TSLA gets back into $300+ territory. By that time, a bond ladder allocation may even be a good idea to cover a portion of annual expenses.