Semi Summer tires

[KG2V]

You run studded snow tires in Queens?!? Whaaaa? I stopped using studded snows in Maine when Bridgestone came out with Blizzaks. That had to be like 30yrs ago, or so it seems. You only hear studded tires when a truck passes, nowadays.

Why not use the 3PMSF, 3 Peak Mountain Snowflake, category tires? Michelin CrossClimate 2, or Vredestein QuatracPro or similar models from other manufacturers? They're snow-rated, but can be used year-round, and qualify for snow tire use in Canada.

Because when I went to get WRGs, or the R2s, neither were available, so I went with the R9s. Heck, I could not get WRGs for my wife's car either (ran them for years)
I have a VERY steep driveway, and have to run snows, or at least something like the WRG - regular all season slip

Oh, and I make regular runs to Rochester - you know, the snow belt, but can avoid the "do this when I have all summer/all seasons on"

 

[KG2V]

OK, so of the "all season"
MXM4s (which I'm basically happy with)
or the Pilot Sport 4,
or the Kinergy GT

 

[Knightshade]

“Marketing”

You can't legally void a warranty for marketing purposes, so not that either

 

[E90alex]

OK, so of the "all season"
MXM4s (which I'm basically happy with)
or the Pilot Sport 4,
or the Kinergy GT

If you’re happy with the MXM4 then PS4 is absolutely overkill and waste of money.

 

[Knightshade]

If you’re happy with the MXM4 then PS4 is absolutely overkill and waste of money.

other than stopping dozens of feet shorter in an emergency.

Which could turn overkill into nobodygetskilled

 

[KG2V]

If you’re happy with the MXM4 then PS4 is absolutely overkill and waste of money.

I can get the PS4 for less than the MXM....

 

[UncertainTimes]

I can get the PS4 for less than the MXM....

Then get them. Just remember they’re summer tires and no you shouldn’t use them in 20 degree temps. There is an all season version of it too.

 

[KG2V]

Then get them. Just remember they’re summer tires and no you shouldn’t use them in 20 degree temps. There is an all season version of it too.

I was talking the PS4 All Season, not the PS4S

 

[E90alex]

I was talking the PS4 All Season, not the PS4S

Yes, then absolutely get the PS4AS over the MXM4 if they are cheaper.

 

[holmgang]

Michelin literally tells you it's not fine to drive in 20 degree weather.


Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

The interpretation of this is that a summer tire already at 20*F is not advised to drive on. It does not equate to avoid flash exposure to 20*F, and an exposure to 20*F ambient of a tire rolling under a 4000# car will not lower its temp to 20*F.

If I drive my car out of my climate controlled garage into a cold wintry road, my tire does not precipitously plunge into cracking temperatures.

 

[dsgerbc]

Michelin literally tells you it's not fine to drive in 20 degree weather.





Most relevant bits in bold.

Manufacturers' ass-covering legalese != facts.
Per your own quote, driving in temps >20F, as in the rest of 20Fs, is totally fine, per Michelin. And remember, when you're driving, and the ambient temps are in the 20s ambient your tire tread/carcass will be in the high 40s-50s.

Choosing tires is always a trade-off. Mounting snow tires to replace summer tires when the weather/forecast is dry but temps drop into 20s is a bad risk/benefit choice. The risk/benefit is even worse if temps are in the 30s.
If the forecast is in the 30s and does call for precipitation/chance of ice/snow, the risk/benefit shifts. There are no absolute answers. You just have to evaluate the forecast, be aware of your tires' strengths and weaknesses and filter the marketing out.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Choosing tires is always a trade-off. Mounting snow tires to replace summer tires when the weather/forecast is dry but temps drop into 20s is a bad risk/benefit choice. The risk/benefit is even worse if temps are in the 30s.
If the forecast is in the 30s and does call for precipitation/chance of ice/snow, the risk/benefit shifts. There are no absolute answers. You just have to evaluate the forecast, be aware of your tires' strengths and weaknesses and filter the marketing out.

Wouldn't someone using seasonal sets of tires consider having three sets of tires?

• Summer tires for warm season.
• All season tires for cool with possible snow and/or ice season.
• Winter tires for lots of snow and/or ice season.

 

[Knightshade]

Manufacturers' ass-covering legalese != facts.

If operating the tire at 20 degrees couldn't cause unsafe conditions there wouldn't be anything to legally cover

It's remarkable the effort people put into making excuses to not believe the words the people who make the thing write.


The OP was specifically asking for tires that would be better than the MXM4s but would still be ok if they got caught in unexpectedly cold temps or snow

Summer tires are dangerous garbage in snow and also can potentially damage the tire if it's cold enough.


Said OP also mentioned they don't drive very aggressively-- so the better tires would primarily be providing benefit, to them, in shorter braking distances in an emergency.


The all season version of the pilot sport (or the Conti all season I also suggested) would both be massively better and safer choices for what they are asking for.


Now if the dude lived someplace it never snows and the worst winter gets into the 30s, sure, throw summer PS4s on there and call it a day.

But that's not remotely what was asked.

 

[Knightshade]

Wouldn't someone using seasonal sets of tires consider having three sets of tires?

• Summer tires for warm season.
• All season tires for cool with possible snow and/or ice season.
• Winter tires for lots of snow and/or ice season.

FWIW, all seasons used to be pretty awful... like WAY worse in winter than dedicated winters, and WAY worse in summer than dedicated summers.

Testing done like 10ish years ago on this showed dozens of feet worse stopping distance (as well as significantly worse performance in virtually all other measures too) all else being equal.



That isn't really true anymore though (especially in anything but heavy winter conditions).... the newest DSW06s and the newest AS Pilot Sports are fantastic.... not QUITE as good on the bleeding edge of performance as their summer brethren, but VERY close.... stopping within a few feet difference instead of a few dozen.

In significantly challenging winter you're still gonna want dedicated winters-- but unless you live your life 1/4 mile at a time... or you live someplace it just doesn't get cold enough to snow (or does so rarely enough you can leave it parked when it's wet and/or WAY below freezing) summers aren't as vital as they once were to have.... (and as I say, if you're in the later category- by all means get the summers)

 

[tm1v2]

Wouldn't someone using seasonal sets of tires consider having three sets of tires?

• Summer tires for warm season.
• All season tires for cool with possible snow and/or ice season.
• Winter tires for lots of snow and/or ice season.

@3sr+buyer I swear I was thinking that too from this thread!

I've not met or come across anyone who actually uses 3 sets of seasonal street tires on one car, but I could see myself trying it if I lived in a very northern climate, like Alaska.

I think the usual solution involves multiple cars though. Namely a sports car on summer rubber that only comes out when the weather is nice, and a separate year-round daily driver that never gets summer tires.

 

[holmgang]

If operating the tire at 20 degrees couldn't cause unsafe conditions there wouldn't be anything to legally cover

Tesla also says it is unsafe to open the glovebox while the car is moving or sit in a seat while it's reclined more than 30*.
But people should be able to intuit the difference between practicality and safespeak.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla also says it is unsafe to open the glovebox while the car is moving or sit in a seat while it's reclined more than 30*.

But they don't state it will physically damage the car and void your warranty

Michelin DOES say that about operating their summer tires at 20 degrees.

People should be able to intuit the difference

 

[holmgang]

But they don't state it will physically damage the car and void your warranty

Michelin DOES say that about operating their summer tires at 20 degrees.

People should be able to intuit the difference

"Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition", not driving at 20 degrees.. which does not guarantee it, but merely "can result" in it.

If you were playing the pedant game, you should stick by one playbook.

 

[Knightshade]

"Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition", not driving at 20 degrees.. which does not guarantee it, but merely "can result" in it.

...what?

Tire maker:
"Doing this can ruin your tires and it's not covered by warranty if that happens so don't do this"

You:
WELL THEY DIDN'T SAY IT FOR SURE WOULD RUIN THEM SO IT IS CLEARLY FINE.

If you were playing the pedant game, you should stick by one playbook.

Are you talking to yourself or something?

Your only counter examples from Tesla were things that had nothing to do with warranty.

Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.

Michelin expressly tells you flexing at all, not just driving, at 20 degrees on the tires can crack the compound and that is not covered by warranty

They even tell you inflating them at that temp can do it

So the "it's just legal CYA not an actual physical sciences issue" argument is utter nonsense. What's the legal CYA warning you not to add air to your tires exactly?


You've picked a really weird hill to die on, but you do you I guess.

 

[KG2V]

If operating the tire at 20 degrees couldn't cause unsafe conditions there wouldn't be anything to legally cover

It's remarkable the effort people put into making excuses to not believe the words the people who make the thing write.


<snip>


The all season version of the pilot sport (or the Conti all season I also suggested) would both be massively better and safer choices for what they are asking for.


<snip>

I did also ask about those
I was specifically looking PS4 AS (not PS4S) vs the MXM4