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Send in the union

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by octoad, Jul 31, 2017.

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  1. octoad

    octoad Member

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    It looks like unionization efforts for factory workers have kicked into high gear now that the Model 3 production has started. Do you think this will have an impact on production?
     
  2. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    If they are successful, yes.
     
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  3. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Tesla workers are already in union at Grohmann Engineering plant in Prüm, Germany.

    Union & Companies have been working fine in Europe and Japan so I don't expect any problem in the US.
     
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  4. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    There's a big difference between unions in Germany and the unionized workforce at the NUMMI plant that became the Tesla factory.
     
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  5. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    A forecast of "Production Hell" begins to make sense after reading this article about automotive union strikes:

    5 largest manufacturing strikes in United Automotive Workers history

    Quote: "Conditions in these plants were hellish. Workers weren't allowed bathroom breaks and often soiled themselves while standing at their stations. Workers were pushed to the limit on 12-14 hour shifts, six days a week. The production speed was nearly impossibly fast and debilitating injuries were common. In July 1936, temperatures inside the Flint plants reached over 100 degrees, yet managers refused to slow the line. Heat exhaustion killed hundreds of workers. Their families could expect no compensation for their deaths."
     
  6. RedModel3

    RedModel3 Member

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    As a Tesla stockholder and union member (non-automotive), I support unionization efforts. Anything to make the employees happier will also make production run more smoothly.
     
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  7. MitchMitch

    MitchMitch Lurker In Chief

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    Also generally a union supporter & member (non-automotive) here but I'm not convinced unionization is the only, or best way to make employees happier or more efficient. Far more important is a basic underlying culture of trust and excellence, which I believe is already present, if not prominent, at Tesla.

    There may be bumps along the way, but no reason to abandon the Tesla win-win tone, and create an us-them vibe I've seen develop in union situations. . . especially and historically in US automotive unions.

    Kind Regards - RM
     
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  8. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    Production hell, thy acronym is NLRB.

    I deal with the NLRB. If you want to take a fast moving, innovative company and turn it into a sclerotic, bureaucratic quagmire, there is no substitute for unionization.
     
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  9. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    #9 Garlan Garner, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
    Link? Source?

    Personally I have never seen the advantage a union makes for a company. Unions almost tanked the company I work for where the union workers even disagreed with union policies. In these days of downsizing....people want to work. More picket lines are being crossed than ever before. People need jobs by any means necessary.
     
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  10. alseTrick

    alseTrick Active Member

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    No.
     
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  11. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #11 Ulmo, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
    Unionization:
    • This is made to hurt Tesla by its competitors.
    • UAW is an awful union.
    • Tesla can unionize with a union that represents both its interests and the interests of its employees. For instance, many construction trade unions are like that. HOWEVER, UAW AND MANY FAKE COMPANY-MADE UNIONS ARE BOTH BAD EXTREMES THAT ARE AWFUL UNIONS FOR EVERYONE. DO NOT ALLOW UAW TO BE THE UNION THAT UNIONIZES TESLA. Be proactive: DO NOT MAKE A SHELL UNION THAT IS 100% PRO-COMPANY AND DOES NOT PAY ATTENTION TO ITS EMPLOYEES. DO MAKE A UNION THAT REPRESENTS THE BEST INTERESTS OF ALL PARTIES. The ball is in Tesla's court, now, and they can't just be reactive about this unless they want a huge portion of failure.
    • I am not an expert unionization and union strategist, but my novice guess is that the above process of making a better union than UAW (or an empty employer-sourced union) and getting there as part of the vote process before UAW will allow the employees to pick from no union or from a better union than UAW.
    • I ask a key question: where are the local offices of the unions being considered? Tesla operates at the speed of Silicon Valley, not of the East Coast. I actually don't know the answer to this, but if ever there are any policy decisions coming from anywhere more than 100 miles from here (Silicon Valley), they are not an acceptable union.
    There. I've said the most important stuff. I encourage those with contacts at Tesla to bring this to the appropriate leadership.
     
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  12. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    I encourage you to take consideration of the quality of your particular union, and compare it to your expectations and the history of many other unions at companies such as Tesla.

    I am also a Tesla stockholder and union member (non-automotive), but I'm keenly aware of the difference of quality and kind that each particular union is. I, as a result, never blindly support unionization efforts.
     
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  13. SPadival

    SPadival Member

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    Definitely not the UAW, given its history at the NUMMI plant.

    NUMMI 2015
     
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  14. silentsnow31802

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    I was part of the UAW in my last job. HORRIBLE people they are. No representation despite promises. All they did was take my money.
     
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  15. RedModel3

    RedModel3 Member

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    Your previous post was spot on. UAW would not be a good fit for Tesla.
     
  16. Marsnaut

    Marsnaut Member

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    I'm all for worker safety and creating a non-toxic environment. I'm generally against unions but for them when they make sense. Like others, I'm no expert on unions or safety but it is of my opinion that Tesla has already addressed these issues.

    Tesla's statement (Creating the Safest Car Factory in the World) still applies today. The key point is that "...the total recordable incident rate (TRIR), the leading metric for workplace safety, is 4.6, which is 32% better than the industry average of 6.7." It is my understanding that it is nearly impossible to fabricate a low TRIR and I'll take the Tesla's word for it.

    To sum up why I'm against unions at the NUMMI plant: "The alternative is to stop improving and to instead do what the rest of the industry, including the UAW, has always done. But being industry average would make our safety 32% worse."
     
  17. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    No. It will have an impact on cost.

    Are you thinking they will unionize and then immediately strike? Or that employees who unionize can start to goof off and not build cars?
     
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  18. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    because the unions have done so much in the past for the other US automakers? there is a reason no new factories have been built in the unionized midwest and are all the newer plants are located in right to work states in the south or in mexico. the UAW has done much damage to the US auto industry and I hope that they aren't allowed to destroy tesla
     
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  19. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    The current UAW is not the old UAW.

    Union excesses have damaged industry. Management excesses and greed have damaged industry. I don't have a solution, but there must be some balance.

    Tesla unionizing in California is inevitable, regardless of the merits. Tesla building all of its future large factories in lower cost states/countries is probably also inevitable.
     
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  20. JonathanD

    JonathanD Member

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    As is increased roboticization. In a tragic irony, unions and other groups intended to benefit human workers often incentivize businesses to accelerate the move toward automation. Of course given Elon's comments about the alien dreadnaught, this was going to happen in the world of Tesla anyway.
     
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