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Sent letter asking for a refund for FSD paid feature

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by BestRadar, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    I sent a letter asking Tesla to refund me for the FSD & AP functions I paid $8000 for. At this point I dont trust that FSD will ever come and there is no reason I should have paid for a feature that might never become a reality. In my opinion they should not have sold a feature which was not ready to be sold. I would be more than happy to pay the extra $1000 later if it ever becomes a reality but I am doubtful after seeing how poor the AP2 functionality is coming along. I would not trust it to use it. Is there anyone else upset that they paid for features they were not given? I would be happy if they switched their focus and at-least give me some of the simple things like automatic wipers and automatic high beams which cars 1/3 the price have standard.
     
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  2. HebrHmr

    HebrHmr Member

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    "Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval."

    "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

    Did it say something different when you purchased?
     
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  3. njxman

    njxman Member

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    I can understand asking for a refund on FSD, but not sure how you are justifying it for AP given current functionality.
     
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  4. Sully's8

    Sully's8 Member

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    I have to agree with Hbr. . . I was perfectly clear when I ordered that FSD was unavailable. I inferred it could be an indefinite delay, and so I passed, more than willing to cough of the 1K when it was ready. My OA was not pushy and was on board with my logic too. . . If your OA pushed you into it, I might rethink my position of course.

    As for EAP, musk quoted full roll out by end of March, so I'm guessing that you might see a step change in improvement if you wait a bit.

    Of course, I live by the mantra "you never get what you don't ask for" so good luck on the letter.
     
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  5. DHG.

    DHG. Member

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    #5 DHG., Mar 2, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
    Just to clarify the differences in your agrument vs the OPs

    I think he is just saying that it doesn't parity AP1 and it's subpar. No one on this forum has disagreed with that so far. We are all probably a little annoyed that basic features like auto dimming headlights and auto wipers aren't available. I think that's where the OP is going with this. All that being said I wouldn't ask for a refund personally I'd rather forever hold this over Tesla's head and make them perform on their promises.

    FSD says it might not happen because of regulatory reasons not because they might not be able to produce a capable product. The OPs argument is it will never be capable or safe given how bad AP2 is performing. He mentioned nothing about regulations. FSD which I bought, will likely never happen. My AP2 is very fond of freeway exits and drives a little tipsy. No way it could navigate this intersection a 6 way stop with no light. It's a free for all. This is in Beverly Hills. How many cars are in the intersection in that photo? Yeah, never going to happen.
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    If you buy a dealer inventory car and tell them you will buy it but dont want FSD they can turn it off and sell you the car without the feature. I purchased FSD and it has not been activated and there is no ETA and honestly at this point I would not trust it anyway. They hyped up their self driving video and offered nothing similar to what they displayed to all of us. If people dont hold them responsible they will continue to keep overselling functions to people. If they cant get us the simple things like automatic high-beams (They removed simple sensors for this) to instead use the same cameras to know when a car is coming to switch to low beams and then go back to high beams how can I trust this car to actually drive for itself.
     
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  7. disagree

    disagree hos epi to polu

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    Depending on when the OP purchased his car, EAP might very well have said something different. This is what it said when I purchased my car in October.

    [​IMG]
     

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  8. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    As of March I have not had the chance to even test it. It was promised to me by the end of December. I live in NJ and not one road in NJ that I travel on even allows the function to even be activated.
     
  9. HebrHmr

    HebrHmr Member

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    I'm not seeing your image but I purchased in October as well and remember similar language to what it is now with maybe the addition of some projected release dates.
     
  10. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    I'll give you $8,000 to take your car off your hands.
     
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  11. disagree

    disagree hos epi to polu

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    I don't know why you can't see it, but I'm guessing it's my fault somehow. Sorry!

    Anyway, here is what EAP said up until January '17:

    "Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval."

    While I think there are significant differences in language beyond the December expectation, I have no interest in litigating the issue here. I just wanted to point out that it was in fact different.
     
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  12. HebrHmr

    HebrHmr Member

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    He said he doesn't trust that it will ever come out and if it does he wouldn't trust the capability enough to use it. Additionally, he states they shouldn't have sold a capability not ready to be sold and that he paid for a capability he did not receive. My post was simply a quote of current literature posted on the EAP/FSD order page asking him if it said something different than what it says now when he purchased. It clearly states features will be available when validation is complete. Which, depending on when he ordered, may have also stated an expected roll-out date of December '16.

    With regard to your statements that seem to pop up on every AP2 related thread whether that was the original intent or not: Yes, AP1 parity has not been achieved and yes they are behind their originally projected timeline.

    What evidence do any of you nay-sayers have that FSD will never happen? Because you can't imagine it? Because you aren't personally capable of producing that capability? All I see is incessant FUD based on nothing but personal feelings and opinions. Please, someone show me some factual evidence that FSD is never going to happen on HW2.
     
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  13. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    . “The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty – a fad.” — The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903
     
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  14. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    NHTSA requires redundancy, FSD might not have enough. Who knows what "enough" is, as the NHTSA autonomous driving doesn't detail it

    "The process should describe design redundancies and safety strategies for handling cases of HAV system malfunctions." [HAV = Highly Automated Vehicles] Source: https://one.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/av/pdf/Federal_Automated_Vehicles_Policy.pdf
     
  15. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    I am sick and tired of this reply.

    You're a waiter. Customer orders the 3 course menu for $25, get's starter and main course as usual. Something happens in the kitchen. The chef desserts left in the middle of a shift and the head chef is trying to get it resolved, even calling up a top chef to replace the chef desserts. But the customer is already waiting 15 minutes and asks you where their desserts are. You tell them they'll be right there. Customer waits another 15 minutes. No dessert yet (you can't even tell him when it will arrive) so the customer asks for the bill. Do you 1) charge him full menu price at $25 2) comp him $6 for the desserts?

    You are a used car sales guy. Young couple comes in and buys a second hand car for 12 000 EUR. You manage to tack on insurance that covers the car as if it were new for 20 000 EUR. Customer even signs the papers saying so. Clearly mentioned in paragraph 4, second page. Customer comes back 2 weeks later after realizing what happened asking if you can reduce the coverage. Do you 1) say tough luck, here is the paper you signed 2) try to get reduced insurance so he just covers the price he needs to replace second hand

    See where I am getting at? One choice is great customer service. The other is not.To which standard should we hold Tesla?

    Tesla is supposed to be the better car buying experience. They should refund OP presto. No questions asked, no fuzz. Just a polite 'I am sorry sir that you are disappointed in what we delivered. We will process your refund right away. And once EAP2.0 is best in class again, it will be my pleasure to invite you personally for a test drive to see if we can change your mind again' (and refunds should be processed in a few days at most, not weeks or even months)
     
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  16. njxman

    njxman Member

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    I'm not sure which part of NJ you live in but TACC should be available on every road, and Autosteer (50MPH) is available on all major Interstate highways including the Garden State, I-95, I-80, I-78, etc. I've been using Autosteer (35 MPH) on almost every local road in my neighboorhood with decent results as long as the lines are well-marked. Are you on 17.7.2?
     
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  17. Joe F

    Joe F Member

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    Curious what road(s) you use? I've been able to use TACC on every road I've been on in NJ. Autosteer sadly only on AC Expressway and Parkway for less than 30 seconds or so at a time sa a test before faster traffic starts to overtake me, forcing a switch back to TACC only.

    Not discounting your (perhaps all or our) frustrations, just trying to understand if you truly mean that no part of AP works at all for you, in which case something is broken on your car.
     
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  18. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    No, I still do not have 17.7.2 so I am a few versions behind but I can only use what they send my car. In any case even if they did update me the GSP, I-95 & I-195 are all 65MPH limits and flow of traffic is usually even 10 over the PSL so trying a feature at 50MPH would be dangerous and foolish.
     
  19. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

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    #19 Sonny Daze, Mar 2, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
    Tesla will not be giving any individual a refund unless they have decided that they are willing to give a refund to everyone who is interested. If one person gets a refund, 10,000 people will want one. Even if they feel bad about he situation and believe that giving a refund is the most honorable thing to do, it would a nightmare. I can't see it happening without legal action (which would also be a nightmare).
     
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  20. JRMW

    JRMW Member

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    I agree with others.

    Regardless of what is "right" or "legal," Tesla should refund customers for FSD if the customer requests it, unless Tesla can
    1) demonstrate that it will be possible on the HW2 car delivered to the customer
    and
    2) give a clearer timeline of when it will happen. (getting it in the year 2162 doesn't cut it)

    I think it's fine/appropriate to sell something that is in development, but eventually you have to deliver it. it is unclear (not impossible) if Tesla can deliver on FSD with AP HW2.

    I don't believe there is any need to reimburse customers for EAP as this product exists, even though it may not be as awesome as hyped. (hyped products rarely are as good as advertised. Ever buy a Ginzu knife?)
     
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