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Separate company for Solar -vs- Powerwall

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Have a Model 3 and love it, but Tesla's customer service reputation has made me want to avoid them for Solar. We found a great local company that gets great reviews from our Tesla club. Have a 13.6 kW system designed for us that meets our needs. Really happy with that. They're a bit pricier than Tesla, but their customer service is top notch so I'm willing to pay that premium.

We also wanted 1-2 Powerwalls. We felt their pricing for the Powerwalls were not competitive at all. Almost $15k for a single Powerwall install. Looking at Tesla's website, it looks like we can get 2 for $17k before any rebates.

I think we're going to go the route of having them do the solar install, and then go to Tesla for the PW install. I'm sure we're not the first people to do this. Any lessons learned from folks that have? Is it better to do one before the other? Right now I'm leaning towards doing solar first.
 
I'm in the process of trying to get 8 kW PV + 2x Powerwall 2. Trying to get them both at the same time where the installation made sense was way more difficult than it had any right to be. But in my case I was trying to do a partial home backup. If you're looking at 2x Powerwall 2 on a 13 KW system, I'm guessing you'll have a partial home backup as well.

The dedicated PV shops simply do not have enough experience with the Powerwall 2 and Gateway 2 to do a partial backup. My experience has been the PV experts know Generac, LG Chem, and Enphase batteries well, but they don't know Tesla. Those other options have a really tough time dealing with partial home backups.

But Tesla knows their own tech, and they'll have the best pricing as well. Just be careful that they will try to upsell you hard to do a whole house backup with like 4x Powerwall when you talk to them. But for what you save with them vs your original quote, maybe you'll end up deciding whole home backup is right for you :)

So yes, if you think there's enough time in 2020 to get the PV first followed by the PW, I think you'll be fine breaking this up into two installs. I had a terrible time dealing with Tesla on the PV side, so I can't recommend them as a good option (even though they're by far the cheapest) unless your house is "perfectly suited" for PV.
 
So this company is awesome. They actually talked me down from 4 Powerwalls lol. We talked about our total usage, what we're realistically looking for from the Powerwalls, and what make sense for us. Fortunately no upselling from these guys. They're an awesome company - just not competitive from a PW pricepoint.

I'm talking to them now about reducing the price by $1k and then bundling a Tesla Wall charger. I really want them to do it all. If they do the other things, they're still pricier, but it's not nearly as bad.
 
About two years ago I bailed on Tesla Solar (then SolarCity) because they couldn't get their act together and went with a local company GreenPowerEnergy in Annandale, NJ. They had excellent reviews and they were really good about informing me about the process, which was a regulatory minefield at the time here in New Jersey (and probably still is). After about 8 months the system was installed and then I contracted Tesla to install 2 Powerwalls for full backup (and a Wall charger) because like you I found the local companies to want too much for the install (I think they wanted to clear stock of competing battery systems first). There were some issues getting the Powerwalls and inverter to work together correctly but most of those problems were due to PSE&G grid/line problems. I don't regret going local at all.
 
See you’re in Texas and one thing to consider is how long your power might be out if caused by large hurricane or tornado situation in your area. AC eats through a lot of kWhs. Do you rely on it where you are at?

We ended up adding a third PW to our order to give us more backup power in event of extended PG&E wildfire safety power shutdown or in event earthquake were to knock out power for some time. Even in areas of the country where hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, earthquakes aren’t an issue, if you experience strong storms (ie. ice storms, Nor'easters, summer storms) or live in areas more rural where downed lines can take days to fix, you could be looking at extended outages. A problem in hot AC areas or even during Winter when you want heat from your furnace (gas furnaces still have electrical components).

I know Tesla has given a break on multiple PW units, not sure if third parties have that ability. The other thing to consider is the installation cost. That’s a flat fee Tesla charges per installation (covers planning, permitting and sending out the team). We upped our PWs now because of this expense, wanting to minimize the money going towards that cost and instead put it towards another PW unit.
 
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I got Tesla solar installed on 8/2018 but wanted a 9.1KW system but my city limited to 7.45kW system. Then 7 months later I had 2 Powerwalls installed (wish I had one or two more PW's but in WA state would not make sense). Wished I could get solar roof instead of panels.

I had couple of calls with Tesla customer service and for the most part they were great.

If your roof has south, east & west and panels can go on each, make sure you tell them. I have 2 west facing sides, which a panel may have gone but I didn't ask if it was possible.
 
See you’re in Texas and one thing to consider is how long your power might be out if caused by large hurricane or tornado situation in your area. AC eats through a lot of kWhs. Do you rely on it where you are at?

We ended up adding a third PW to our order to give us more backup power in event of extended PG&E wildfire safety power shutdown or in event earthquake were to knock out power for some time. Even in areas of the country where hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, earthquakes aren’t an issue, if you experience strong storms (ie. ice storms, Nor'easters, summer storms) or live in areas more rural where downed lines can take days to fix, you could be looking at extended outages. A problem in hot AC areas or even during Winter when you want heat from your furnace (gas furnaces still have electrical components).

I know Tesla has given a break on multiple PW units, not sure if third parties have that ability. The other thing to consider is the installation cost. That’s a flat fee Tesla charges per installation (covers planning, permitting and sending out the team). We upped our PWs now because of this expense, wanting to minimize the money going towards that cost and instead put it towards another PW unit.
I apologize, I'm actually in Maryland now. We moved 3 months ago (moving during COVID was super fun).

Excellent feedback though, thank you very much.
 
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I worked with a company here in TX named Longhorn Solar.. Their quote was 14.4K higher than Tesla at the time.. They pointed out to me Tesla's negative reviews, which I had already known about..

For a 14K difference, it's something I was willing take a risk on. I wanted to give Longhorn my business, but they wouldn't budge on pricing. The max they'd do was 2K off. They were spec'ing LG panels vs the Q-Cells that Tesla uses. Same solaredge equipment though, with optimizers.


So I took the chance.. I ordered on July 7th, my panels were installed last Thursday/Friday (July 23/24) and the city inspected the unit monday of this week (July 27th).. Now I'm just waiting on my power company. I live in a co-op, so hopefully they're much faster than the big companies in giving the go-ahead to turn on.

The only complaint I can understand for many people is you don't get to talk to anyone when you order. It's basically a menu system. Which honestly I was OK with, this stuff is all plug-n-play basically. They did the design on my house, I liked the lay-out they did, which would be the same for any company really. I have yet to pay anything other than 100 bucks too, no ones called/emailed asking for money yet. It's supposed to be 50 % at install, the rest at turn-on.

The guys who did the install were SolarCity employees I believe, as their trucks had markings on it from that. They were curteous and professional. I'm sure in other areas its sub-contractors. These are the same guys who do the service calls they say, so hopefully if my time comes for that I get good service too.
 
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I apologize, I'm actually in Maryland now. We moved 3 months ago (moving during COVID was super fun).

Excellent feedback though, thank you very much.

Since you are in MD, are you aware that in addition to the $1k solar grant, MD offers a tax credit of 30%, up to $5k, on PWs (or other battery storage): Maryland Energy Storage Income Tax Credit- Tax Year 2020

We just got our credit certificate from them (can't actually claim the credit until we file our taxes next year.) Half way through the year, they haven't even given out 20% of the amount available. I don't know if this is because not many install PWs (or other battery storage) in MD because TOU rates are uncommon or because people are not aware of it. Unlike the $1k grant, Tesla does not - as far as I have seen - list this credit as an available incentive when ordering.

Ordering from Tesla, 2 PWs just about perfectly maxed out the 30%/$5k, so that was nice for us. And 2 PWs should (depending on house size) be enough to do whole-home backup, but you would have to ration things like A/C usage, and charging the car much (and possibly at all) would be out.
 
So this company is awesome. They actually talked me down from 4 Powerwalls lol. We talked about our total usage, what we're realistically looking for from the Powerwalls, and what make sense for us. Fortunately no upselling from these guys. They're an awesome company - just not competitive from a PW pricepoint.

I'm talking to them now about reducing the price by $1k and then bundling a Tesla Wall charger. I really want them to do it all. If they do the other things, they're still pricier, but it's not nearly as bad.
I have found local installers to be expensive on PW 2 and as I expected more expensive in panels. I thought it would be worth the extra money but it’s gotten to be a lot more money. I have a 12.4kW system and 3 PW going in for $45,100 without incentives. Most installers for a similar system want $40,000 just for the panels. I got one solar company that doesn’t Sun Power to do a similar system $62,250. Yes Sun Power is a better panel with micro-inverters and they will do power wall but is it worth 13,034 dollars after taxes credits? I’m not sure and have pressed forward with Tesla while I make a decision. My heart says go local but my wallet says go Tesla. If the difference were 10k it would make it harder.
What kind of pricing are you folks seeing?
 
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If there is an additional rebate which would increase by adding a Powerwall, you ought to really consider the third. That's because three Powerwalls or more is really, a true "whole house backup" for many homes, and do not require the extra electrical work (which is a four figure item) to separate backed up loads from non-backed up loads. I mean, if the combination of a bit of a extra rebate (say, $1.5K) and the need for less extra electrical work (say, $1.7K) equals more than half of the cost of the powerwall, which is already, say, $5k times .74 or 3.7K. Its not as if the third Powerwall is free, but really check it out.

You can see many threads on this forum which are all caused by the electrical work required for partial home back-ups. There are also a bunch of threads about how two Powerwalls don't work if you have a central A/C connected, so read up.

My two cents as to customer service is that a huge chunk of the time is waiting for the utility or city to approve stuff. Maybe an independent company can make one feel better about the waiting, but all my research has indicated that there is no way to effectively put pressure on a utility or city, so any extra is paid for waiting you have to do either way.

See, by the way, Zerot's post directly above. I found the same huge price difference.

Finally (maybe this is four cents now. :)) once one dips a toe into battery back up be aware its really new tech. All of the problems on this board which "require" better customer service seem to have a root cause of design issues caused by battery back up.
 
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If there is an additional rebate which would increase by adding a Powerwall, you ought to really consider the third. That's because three Powerwalls or more is really, a true "whole house backup" for many homes, and do not require the extra electrical work (which is a four figure item) to separate backed up loads from non-backed up loads. I mean, if the combination of a bit of a extra rebate (say, $1.5K) and the need for less extra electrical work (say, $1.7K) equals more than half of the cost of the powerwall, which is already, say, $5k times .74 or 3.7K. Its not as if the third Powerwall is free, but really check it out.

You can see many threads on this forum which are all caused by the electrical work required for partial home back-ups. There are also a bunch of threads about how two Powerwalls don't work if you have a central A/C connected, so read up.

My two cents as to customer service is that a huge chunk of the time is waiting for the utility or city to approve stuff. Maybe an independent company can make one feel better about the waiting, but all my research has indicated that there is no way to effectively put pressure on a utility or city, so any extra is paid for waiting you have to do either way.

See, by the way, Zerot's post directly above. I found the same huge price difference.

Finally (maybe this is four cents now. :)) once one dips a toe into battery back up be aware its really new tech. All of the problems on this board which "require" better customer service seem to have a root cause of design issues caused by battery back up.

Just to be clear - since the 30% rebate caps out at $5k in MD, essentially it covers about $17k in battery costs, which is almost exactly what 2 cost (and OP cited that.) So, the 3rd and beyond would not be subsidized by the state (still can get the ITC, of course.)

Both the A/C issue and question about electrical work are definitely worth looking at because they are house-dependent, but I would caution about assuming that 2 means a partial-home solution or more electrical work. In fact, in our house, 2 PWs + a softstart for the A/C means a whole-home backup solution (and Tesla charged us less for electrical to install 2 than 1 PW), and we have had no issues with the softstart. Each circumstance varies, so investigate accordingly, but I almost feel like there is starting to be PW inflation where 1 wasn't enough to do whole-home (probably true in most cases unless you have all gas appliances) to where 2 isn't enough, which I think in more cases can come down to a preference for how much inconvenience you can accept in a backup situation. I do recognize for some 2 definitely will not be enough, with A/C type/size, home size, and need for including car charging in the backup being the big factors I see.
 
Just to be clear - since the 30% rebate caps out at $5k in MD, essentially it covers about $17k in battery costs, which is almost exactly what 2 cost (and OP cited that.) So, the 3rd and beyond would not be subsidized by the state (still can get the ITC, of course.)

Both the A/C issue and question about electrical work are definitely worth looking at because they are house-dependent, but I would caution about assuming that 2 means a partial-home solution or more electrical work. In fact, in our house, 2 PWs + a softstart for the A/C means a whole-home backup solution (and Tesla charged us less for electrical to install 2 than 1 PW), and we have had no issues with the softstart. Each circumstance varies, so investigate accordingly, but I almost feel like there is starting to be PW inflation where 1 wasn't enough to do whole-home (probably true in most cases unless you have all gas appliances) to where 2 isn't enough, which I think in more cases can come down to a preference for how much inconvenience you can accept in a backup situation. I do recognize for some 2 definitely will not be enough, with A/C type/size, home size, and need for including car charging in the backup being the big factors I see.

This is exactly right. When we charge both the Model 3 and eGolf on the same day it can easily be 50kwh just for the cars. When one considers that a powerwall is only 13.5kwh you can see the issue.
 
This is exactly right. When we charge both the Model 3 and eGolf on the same day it can easily be 50kwh just for the cars. When one considers that a powerwall is only 13.5kwh you can see the issue.
I guess it is in part terminology, but I do tend to consider car charging as not part of whole-home backup. It is an extra feature if you can include it, but I would call it whole-home+ since, at least with the car, you can in principle move it to another location with power, as needed. I think probably the biggest surprise for most people is the A/C since it typically has a 50A or smaller breaker, so a customer might assume it will work fine with 2 PWs, which can handle 60A.
 
I guess it is in part terminology, but I do tend to consider car charging as not part of whole-home backup. It is an extra feature if you can include it, but I would call it whole-home+ since, at least with the car, you can in principle move it to another location with power, as needed. I think probably the biggest surprise for most people is the A/C since it typically has a 50A or smaller breaker, so a customer might assume it will work fine with 2 PWs, which can handle 60A.

A single AC could require locked rotor amps of 80 or more when the compressor starts up. This spike is fine when the utility works alongside the powerwalls, but I wouldn’t include AC in a 2x powerwall backup scenario if the AC didn’t have a soft start.

Unfortunately I learned there are a lot of Copeland scroll compressors that aren’t compatible with soft starts.
 
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A single AC could require locked rotor amps of 80 or more when the compressor starts up. This spike is fine when the utility works alongside the powerwalls, but I wouldn’t include AC in a 2x powerwall backup scenario if the AC didn’t have a soft start.

Unfortunately I learned there are a lot of Copeland scroll compressors that aren’t compatible with soft starts.
Yeah - that was my point, that if you just do the "math" of looking at your breakers and seeing you have no breakers over 50A, you might think that 2PWs should work fine because they can supply 60A. Obviously, you can't use everything in your house at once, but you might think you could use the A/C and a few small items and be fine. So, it might come as a surprise to some that it doesn't necessarily work that way. Fortunately for us, our A/C does seem to be working fine with a surestart device. And for most it is probably a bit of luck since we weren't worrying about that when we purchased our A/C.

For OP, it is a good sign the electrician thinks he can get away with only 2 PWs. But, since we've seen posts about installs gone wrong, I would definitely make it a point to check the LRA number for your A/C (likely it is printed on the compressor somewhere) and also ask about softstart/surestart options.
 
Question. In the event of a power loss from bad weather or what have you; if you have solar panels and a Powerwall setup do you still store power during the outage? I know that in many states when the grid goes down those who have solar panels loose power as well. I am hoping this is not tru for those who pay a premium for Powerwall solar energy storage.
 
Question. In the event of a power loss from bad weather or what have you; if you have solar panels and a Powerwall setup do you still store power during the outage? I know that in many states when the grid goes down those who have solar panels loose power as well. I am hoping this is not tru for those who pay a premium for Powerwall solar energy storage.
good question!