Seriously Porsche!? Tempted to jump ship, new Taycan Turismo

[mk677]

The only "aura" Porsche (VW) carries for me is that of a company that purposely and criminally polluted the planet in pursuit of profits. They are literally the anti-Tesla.

yawn.

 

[mk677]

While I don't doube the Porsche is a nice car, and looks fantastic, I think if you plan to use this as more then just a "fun car to work and back" you'll be unhappy with leaving the Tesla family.

Charging is a huge huge one. The superchargers are just so reliable and easy. Ask some people how their experience has been on EA stations, and not just the corner station near home they always use, but on road trips and such. I still see YouTube reviewers post how often they have issues with charging. (And these are reviewers that are trying to push non-Tesla cars because they think they're great too) Usually they can get a charge, but I wouldn't want to deal with plug/unplug a couple times or faults happening that means I have to shuffle the car around to different plugs, etc.

That range will likely be lower in winter, especially if you toss some winter tires on the car, etc. Are you ready for 160 to 180 miles of range when the road is wet or covered in snow or you have a head wind?

Those are the two big points for me. Yes there are little pros and cons with the car and the brand etc. But living with it day to day and thinking if it was worth spending $120k CAD on it... those two points would be the HUGE things that kept coming to mind. For ~$93k CAD you can get a new S with much more range. In the winter with winter tires and wind and rain etc you'll likely still get ~250 miles of range (3.5 hours or so of highway driving) and of course the Tesla charging network.

To me range is everything, but I am a single car owner and obviously have to road trip in it. If this is a second car that can sit at home when you do a 500 mile trip or something range might not really be important.

Personally I want to be able to drive about 3 hours without having to stop... maybe I WILL stop before then, but to me that's a nice sweet spot for endurance. That would be a nice range for going out somewhere (national park, etc) and back in to charging locations. Point to point you can make a big push and be 200 miles away from home before you have to start thinking about charging. I don't want to be driving out to family near Christmas and only able to drive an hour and a half before having to charge for 25 minutes. I also don't push it down to 5% battery or anything. I like to have 10 to 15% battery range when plugging in, just in case it's busy or power issues or whatever, I like having options.

interesting assertions, do you own a taycan? why do I ask? because they are all ill informed.

 

[acarney]

interesting assertions, do you own a taycan? why do I ask? because they are all ill informed.

I own a Model Y and previously had a Model 3 SR+ and live in an area that gets cold winters (Washington state). My Model 3 SR+ wasn't ideal in winter due to range reductions from temps and snow tires and especially when standing water or snow was on the road.

I personally haven't had a huge amount of experience with EA stations but have seen a lot of issues with them from youtube guys, and honestly these guys are not Tesla fanboys and are doing a great job reviewing non-tesla EVs and really talking them up... but they are honest about the charging issues and don't edit those out.

I didn't comment about calculating less range by not charging to 100% every day because the Porsche does have a larger battery buffer, so you probably can safely charge to 95% every day without issues and maybe even 100%.

But the fact of the matter is, heat has to come from somewhere, and a heat pump isn't magic. When you're in 30F weather and heating that cabin a lot around town you're going to use a lot more energy, so rated range of ~250 miles or whatever will probably drop by 20% at least, and when driving at highway speeds with cold weather you might very well see more than a 20% reduction. That's not made up, unless Porsche seriously has under advertised their range ( like 50+ miles under advertised) or specifically did highway tests and only quoted those range numbers. Otherwise accept some range loss because of highway speeds and extra loss due to temp, wind, water/snow on the road, that affects all cars.

 

[mk677]

I own a Model Y and previously had a Model 3 SR+ and live in an area that gets cold winters (Washington state). My Model 3 SR+ wasn't ideal in winter due to range reductions from temps and snow tires and especially when standing water or snow was on the road.

I personally haven't had a huge amount of experience with EA stations but have seen a lot of issues with them from youtube guys, and honestly these guys are not Tesla fanboys and are doing a great job reviewing non-tesla EVs and really talking them up... but they are honest about the charging issues and don't edit those out.

I didn't comment about calculating less range by not charging to 100% every day because the Porsche does have a larger battery buffer, so you probably can safely charge to 95% every day without issues and maybe even 100%.

But the fact of the matter is, heat has to come from somewhere, and a heat pump isn't magic. When you're in 30F weather and heating that cabin a lot around town you're going to use a lot more energy, so rated range of ~250 miles or whatever will probably drop by 20% at least, and when driving at highway speeds with cold weather you might very well see more than a 20% reduction. That's not made up, unless Porsche seriously has under advertised their range ( like 50+ miles under advertised) or specifically did highway tests and only quoted those range numbers. Otherwise accept some range loss because of highway speeds and extra loss due to temp, wind, water/snow on the road, that affects all cars.

in other words you really don't know what you are talking about regarding the taycan or charging at EA units

 

[BooMan]

While I don't doube the Porsche is a nice car, and looks fantastic, I think if you plan to use this as more then just a "fun car to work and back" you'll be unhappy with leaving the Tesla family.

Charging is a huge huge one. The superchargers are just so reliable and easy. Ask some people how their experience has been on EA stations, and not just the corner station near home they always use, but on road trips and such. I still see YouTube reviewers post how often they have issues with charging. (And these are reviewers that are trying to push non-Tesla cars because they think they're great too) Usually they can get a charge, but I wouldn't want to deal with plug/unplug a couple times or faults happening that means I have to shuffle the car around to different plugs, etc.

That range will likely be lower in winter, especially if you toss some winter tires on the car, etc. Are you ready for 160 to 180 miles of range when the road is wet or covered in snow or you have a head wind?

Those are the two big points for me. Yes there are little pros and cons with the car and the brand etc. But living with it day to day and thinking if it was worth spending $120k CAD on it... those two points would be the HUGE things that kept coming to mind. For ~$93k CAD you can get a new S with much more range. In the winter with winter tires and wind and rain etc you'll likely still get ~250 miles of range (3.5 hours or so of highway driving) and of course the Tesla charging network.

To me range is everything, but I am a single car owner and obviously have to road trip in it. If this is a second car that can sit at home when you do a 500 mile trip or something range might not really be important.

Personally I want to be able to drive about 3 hours without having to stop... maybe I WILL stop before then, but to me that's a nice sweet spot for endurance. That would be a nice range for going out somewhere (national park, etc) and back in to charging locations. Point to point you can make a big push and be 200 miles away from home before you have to start thinking about charging. I don't want to be driving out to family near Christmas and only able to drive an hour and a half before having to charge for 25 minutes. I also don't push it down to 5% battery or anything. I like to have 10 to 15% battery range when plugging in, just in case it's busy or power issues or whatever, I like having options.

No offense but do you have a Tesla? I don’t live in Canada (ok Michigan is almost Canada) but I know winter driving. My 3 doesn’t get anywhere near the stated EPA range. Yet EVERY reviewer of Porsche is getting materially More range vs the stated EPA (if you are familiar with Porsche you know why). So not sure I understand that relative point you are trying to make on that one.

BUT I totally agree with you that the non SC network experience appear to be hot garbage. Antidotally I spoke with a Bolt owner who drove to Chicago (a ~250mi trip) and his experience with EA was horrid. Until that gets fixed (and it will in a year or so) I am unlikely to switch. However, I once the non SC is up to par I’m likely out as the rest of my Tesla experience (e.g.service center) has been worse than any other car I have owned. Makes no frighten sense how long it took to get parts after a fender bender.

 

[mark95476]

Porsche brand and history is based on 2 seaters that were solely designed to go fast. Carrying luggage or people? Completely extraneous to driving fast.

All of these new 4 door models are intended to pay bills for designing, manufacturing, and racing the former go fast models. The Taycan sells and commands high premiums only because it has the same brand name as the go fast models.

 

[acarney]

No offense but do you have a Tesla? I don’t live in Canada (ok Michigan is almost Canada) but I know winter driving. My 3 doesn’t get anywhere near the stated EPA range. Yet EVERY reviewer of Porsche is getting materially More range vs the stated EPA (if you are familiar with Porsche you know why). So not sure I understand that relative point you are trying to make on that one.

BUT I totally agree with you that the non SC network experience appear to be hot garbage. Antidotally I spoke with a Bolt owner who drove to Chicago (a ~250mi trip) and his experience with EA was horrid. Until that gets fixed (and it will in a year or so) I am unlikely to switch. However, I once the non SC is up to par I’m likely out as the rest of my Tesla experience (e.g.service center) has been worse than any other car I have owned. Makes no frighten sense how long it took to get parts after a fender bender.

I do have a Tesla, had a Model 3 SR+ for a year and then upgraded to a Model Y LR.

Maybe I was a little too harsh on the Porsche then for range loss, but I do suspect there will be some amount during winter time. Porsche isn't getting like 30% longer than EPA number, are they? I thought it was more like 5 to 10% more than what the EPA shows...

Still, if you're starting with a 230 to 250 mile range and then might lose 25 to 50 miles (10 to 20%) that still needs to be factored in. Might not be an issue, but again range is key to me and I would like a 500 mile EV (during winter at highway speeds) if I could get my hands on one

 

[BooMan]

I do have a Tesla, had a Model 3 SR+ for a year and then upgraded to a Model Y LR.

Maybe I was a little too harsh on the Porsche then for range loss, but I do suspect there will be some amount during winter time. Porsche isn't getting like 30% longer than EPA number, are they? I thought it was more like 5 to 10% more than what the EPA shows...

Still, if you're starting with a 230 to 250 mile range and then might lose 25 to 50 miles (10 to 20%) that still needs to be factored in. Might not be an issue, but again range is key to me and I would like a 500 mile EV (during winter at highway speeds) if I could get my hands on one

I think a real world range of ~250mi at REAL hwy speeds (75mph) should be good enough for most people WHEN we get abundant, every hwy exit L3 charging. Once we get there I hope BS EPA numbers will become a thing of the past (looking at you Elon). I think we are close -3 to 5yrs -as electrification appears to be ”Crossing the Chasm”. A heck of a lot closer than 500mi EVs no matter what Tesla, Lucid, or anyone else claim. Those ranges ain’t happening until we get to solid state or some massive battery chem breakthroughs unless you assume city driving speeds (which is irrelevant standard). IMO

 

[acarney]

I think a real world range of ~250mi at REAL hwy speeds (75mph) should be good enough for most people WHEN we get abundant, every hwy exit L3 charging. Once we get there I hope BS EPA numbers will become a thing of the past (looking at you Elon). I think we are close -3 to 5yrs -as electrification appears to be ”Crossing the Chasm”. A heck of a lot closer than 500mi EVs no matter what Tesla, Lucid, or anyone else claim. Those ranges ain’t happening until we get to solid state or some massive battery chem breakthroughs unless you assume city driving speeds (which is irrelevant standard). IMO

Yes! Absolutely.

 

[Doc Brown]

While I don't doube the Porsche is a nice car, and looks fantastic, I think if you plan to use this as more then just a "fun car to work and back" you'll be unhappy with leaving the Tesla family.

Charging is a huge huge one. The superchargers are just so reliable and easy. Ask some people how their experience has been on EA stations, and not just the corner station near home they always use, but on road trips and such. I still see YouTube reviewers post how often they have issues with charging. (And these are reviewers that are trying to push non-Tesla cars because they think they're great too) Usually they can get a charge, but I wouldn't want to deal with plug/unplug a couple times or faults happening that means I have to shuffle the car around to different plugs, etc.

Gotta disagree. I’ve got an Audi eTron and have used EA charging stations on road trips - they’ve worked flawlessly for me. the fit, finish, and comfort, to me, exceeds Tesla - as does the drive. our car also does better than advertised range. To each his own - but I think some people who own Tesla just get defensive when talking other EVs. We had the MY and MX on multiple overnight test drives before getting the eTron. If people want to buy a Tesla - great. Porsche? Great. Chevy Bolt? Great.

 

[john5520]

Sit in a Porsche Taycan then go sit in a Model3/Y. Pretty sure when that Model Y blows past you at the stop light you will smile and giggle at the pauper as you sit back in your massaging seat and ask your trophy wife to pass you the Grey Poupon.

After losing to a Model Y or 3, the trophy wife would ask "honey, aren't these Porsches supposed to be fast? Maybe we should get one of those."

Porsche brand and history is based on 2 seaters that were solely designed to go fast. Carrying luggage or people? Completely extraneous to driving fast.

All of these new 4 door models are intended to pay bills for designing, manufacturing, and racing the former go fast models. The Taycan sells and commands high premiums only because it has the same brand name as the go fast models.

Truth. When I think of Porsche, something like a 911 Turbo comes to mind.

 

[XLR82XS]

Taycan > Tesla, do it

I did it. Ordered a Taycan slated for June delivery. (tracker says it arrived at port yesterday) Replacing a Model 3. Never looking back.

 

[XLR82XS]

Independant auto tear down artist has torn apart most of the drivelines of available EVs. Says nobody is close to the technology that Tesla has implemented in their drive trains. Europeans fell well short. Believes that the upcoming EVs from China will take over tremendous market share from our domestic and imported EV producers.

Time to take a look at the hairpin winding in the Porsche motors. That and 800V architecture.

 

[qdeathstar]

Yea, my vote is gonna be a model s plaid plus for well.. not 90k.

 

[mk677]

Yea, my vote is gonna be a model s plaid plus for well.. not 90k.

are you aware that the plaid remains in the realm of vaporware, just another one of elon's promises unfulfilled. are you aware that tesla is not building ANY model S or X cars at this point in time.
enjoy the wait.

 

[qdeathstar]

are you aware that the plaid remains in the realm of vaporware, just another one of elon's promises unfulfilled. are you aware that tesla is not building ANY model S or X cars at this point in time.
enjoy the wait.

a lot of car manufacturers are deal with chip shortages Be a sour puss if you like.

 

[qdeathstar]

for decades GM was the dominant auto manufacturer in the US, they sold a lot cars. many of their customers were happy in the chevys and the more discerning ones wanted cadillacs. then GM tried a one size fits all approach, and the whole thing blew apart as the cadillac buyer went to MB or BMW, the olds and pontiac guys saw their cars become rehashed chevys and even the chevy guy went to toyota.
the point is that many people will be quite satisfied with their model 3, while people who want more from their cars will gravitate to offerings like the taycan. maybe the model 3 will blow the doors off of a taycan, most people aren't red light racers and really don't care but they do appreciate the higher build quality and the aura of being in a porsche.
I've owned many high and cars, porsches MBs BMWs tesla model S and I even downgraded to a model 3. these petty arguments are so childish.
why people get so obnoxiously adversarial is hard to understand.

the model 3 and Taycan are in a different class. A model 3 owner isn’t buying a Porsche because he probably can’t afford it.

compare the Taycan to a model S, that is the only appropriate comparison.

 

[mk677]

a lot of car manufacturers are deal with chip shortages Be a sour puss if you like.

sour puss? are you like 9 years old? I am relating fact based comments, not emotional rants
the pause of the model s and x might be a byproduct of a chip shortage but the reality is that both the model S and X were not selling, so the chips tesla has on hand are being used to crank out the cars that are selling, the 3 and the Y
the S and X are in a sunset phase, in other words, done.

Tesla temporarily halts production of its Model S and Model X

Tesla has not built any of its two most expensive cars -- the Model S and Model X -- so far this year.

www.cnn.com

 

[pkitch]

I may be a contrarian but paying Porsche money for an electric car seems a poor bet right now. I think that the next 5 years improvements are coming so fast that you will be stuck with old technology. So many new cars are coming out that I am not sure what is the best strategy. For really high end cars maybe leasing ?

Agreed on leasing. Legacy auto makers are looking to drive (sorry) 'upgrades' with frequent changes, Tesla is about sustainability hence the very long stretches between major refreshes and the approach of putting everything UI into one space that can be changed via OTA pushes.

 

[qdeathstar]

sour puss? are you like 9 years old?

I ain’t the one in a Tesla forum whining about the fact that people like Tesla.