Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Service and communication (out of main)

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Last edited:
Well, for better or for worse I think this whole situation will bring attention to the issue,
increasing the probability of a solution.
Talking to execs about the problem is the best thing wecan do,
so please continue to do so.
I'll just leave them few days to fix the phone tree and catch-22.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
For the record, I've never contacted the media about any of this. Of course, what I write here is public and Niedermeyer can read it as well as anyone else can.

I really really dislike Niedermeyer, who engaged in offensive and ignorant stunts like the "Tesla Death Watch", but unfortunately the article you linked is accurate, largely because it's just an assemblage of links to direct quotes from customers.

I was hoping to get Tesla to fix this before it hit the media, but Tesla's lines of communication were so broken that I couldn't. :shrug:

I guess this shows that Niedermeyer is backed by someone other than Big Oil; maybe Big Auto, given his preferred publication locations. It'll be interesting to see whether this spreads to the writers who I suspect of being Big Oil backed; I bet it won't.

----
FYI, I had to take the weekend off to avoid getting too stressed out. I'll check on the phone tree status on Monday, though I'd appreciate anyone else checking any time.

Certainly wasn’t accusing you. From reading your posts, I surmised that you were really pi****, but also worried about the company failing because of this. I am not yet over in the camp of “done with Tesla.” I’m not currently an investor, but I see nothing wrong with being an “activist” owner, challenging Tesla to be better.
 
Elon is on Twitter again. Now that the pick-up unveiling is within a few month, software 10 in September with mighty new games and other goodies.
Why does he come out with it now; a couple of days after the earnings call and a disasterous couple of days for TSLA?
Does he want to push the stock? I hope he doesn't think that way but the timing is remarkable. Once again, his timing for release of features is almost always off. I just wish he just shut-up and release the features whenever it is ready. The stock will do its thing then.
Hah, and about service no less. Paging Neroden!!!

Capture+_2019-07-28-00-29-51.png
 
On the flip side, FUD and large distance to the nearest service center will reduce the addressable market.

Related, I'm curious why SC is so critical in (everyone's) opinion here. Specifically, are people hanging on to an old paradigm and won't buy the car without an SC in town (you know, oil changes, safety upgrades)? So they don't realize service isn't as required here -> updates overair, simple car - my guess.

Combine that with service complaints in general here + FUD, and people think they need one more than they actually do because this isn't a fair representation of all those serviced, me included (who happens to think it's top notch so far).

Consider Elon's comment on "no service is the best model", and I bet they're throttling this up carefully to avoid waste in service as well (which it is in some ways).

Myself, I wouldn't avoid purchase because the Service Center was out of town. I don't think people realize how much these are in demand. If people can swing it, I think they're ready to do anything to get one.
 
Related, I'm curious why SC is so critical in (everyone's) opinion here. Specifically, are people hanging on to an old paradigm and won't buy the car without an SC in town (you know, oil changes, safety upgrades)? So they don't realize service isn't as required here -> updates overair, simple car - my guess.

Perhaps there is some paradigm shift here to overcome - when I talk to colleagues, most of whom are engineers so should be able to realize this already - there is often a little bit of an ‘ah-ha’ moment when I point out the preventive maintenance savings. So maybe there is just comfort in having an SC close by. My closest is 2 hours away in Montreal and I did have to do some significant thinking about that - in fact I might not even have bought the Tesla if I hadn’t stuck my ‘engineers hat on’ and done a through tech analysis of pretty much every BEV on the market in my area and ended up with a strong technical argument against every one except the Tesla, who’s biggest fault was ‘no nearby service’. People still worry about the unexpected, doubled because you can’t just take it to an Independent mechanic, and even with the ‘less to go wrong ‘ eventually it will likely need some corrective maintenance. I did buy it though so maybe you are right that demand can overcome the concerns to a point... that and I’m hoping Ottawa gets an SC soon!
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: neroden
Related, I'm curious why SC is so critical in (everyone's) opinion here. Specifically, are people hanging on to an old paradigm and won't buy the car without an SC in town (you know, oil changes, safety upgrades)? So they don't realize service isn't as required here -> updates overair, simple car - my guess.

Combine that with service complaints in general here + FUD, and people think they need one more than they actually do because this isn't a fair representation of all those serviced, me included (who happens to think it's top notch so far).

Consider Elon's comment on "no service is the best model", and I bet they're throttling this up carefully to avoid waste in service as well (which it is in some ways).

Myself, I wouldn't avoid purchase because the Service Center was out of town. I don't think people realize how much these are in demand. If people can swing it, I think they're ready to do anything to get one.
Having owned Tesla's for over 8 1/2 years, I really hate to say it but they have required more service calls/visits than any car I have had in over 35 years. Part of the issue is they do not release documentation (service manuals) so one is essentially forced to go to the service center. Take the TPMS on my Roadster. I was told they have to be replaced by Tesla. No local shop had a tool to reset nor even knew what part to order. So off I go to the nearest service center just 200 miles away. On my Volt any local tire shop can replace or I can go to the dealer, my choice.

On oil changes, tune ups, belts, transmission filters, I have always done those myself. Not hard and usually less time than setting up an appointment and having a shop do it. I prefer the lower maintenance of the Tesla and hopefully the initial problems/quirks have been worked out.
 
Perhaps there is some paradigm shift here to overcome - when I talk to colleagues, most of whom are engineers so should be able to realize this already - there is often a little bit of an ‘ah-ha’ moment when I point out the preventive maintenance savings. So maybe there is just comfort in having an SC close by. My closest is 2 hours away in Montreal and I did have to do some significant thinking about that - in fact I might not even have bought the Tesla if I hadn’t stuck my ‘engineers hat on’ and done a through tech analysis of pretty much every BEV on the market in my area and ended up with a strong technical argument against every one except the Tesla, who’s biggest fault was ‘no nearby service’. People still worry about the unexpected, doubled because you can’t just take it to an Independent mechanic, and even with the ‘less to go wrong ‘ eventually it will likely need some corrective maintenance. I did buy it though so maybe you are right that demand can overcome the concerns to a point... that and I’m hoping Ottawa gets an SC soon!

The Capital of Canada doesn't have a Service Center? Whoa... the Queen would not approve of this.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: StealthP3D
Perhaps there is some paradigm shift here to overcome - when I talk to colleagues, most of whom are engineers so should be able to realize this already - there is often a little bit of an ‘ah-ha’ moment when I point out the preventive maintenance savings. So maybe there is just comfort in having an SC close by. My closest is 2 hours away in Montreal and I did have to do some significant thinking about that - in fact I might not even have bought the Tesla if I hadn’t stuck my ‘engineers hat on’ and done a through tech analysis of pretty much every BEV on the market in my area and ended up with a strong technical argument against every one except the Tesla, who’s biggest fault was ‘no nearby service’. People still worry about the unexpected, doubled because you can’t just take it to an Independent mechanic, and even with the ‘less to go wrong ‘ eventually it will likely need some corrective maintenance. I did buy it though so maybe you are right that demand can overcome the concerns to a point... that and I’m hoping Ottawa gets an SC soon!

I wish Tesla would become partially open to Independent mechanics, they have partner with county colleges to become Tesla Tech to work for Tesla, they should let any willing person, Independent mechanics to get training there, after all Tesla has stated many time service is not a profit center for them.
 
I wish Tesla would become partially open to Independent mechanics, they have partner with county colleges to become Tesla Tech to work for Tesla, they should let any willing person, Independent mechanics to get training there, after all Tesla has stated many time service is not a profit center for them.

I'm with ya on other options. I also do my own work on everything I can, so I'm with @dhrivnak too. Sucks I can't do the powerwall myself but I think that's SRP rules here, maybe Tesla too. (They can have the roof though, 2 story, I choose life.)

On topic, here's what I'm hearing... Many here bought despite no SC nearby, others didn't and maybe aren't even on this forum - we don't know, but Tesla does. (OK, I'm sure we'll find one here soon).

I think they're growing just fine. The factory and product are still being refined. So those little office visits to the SC might become a rare event. When that happens, someone's going to complain about profits here or that their SC costs too much. Delicate balance and it's dynamic.

Eventually, I want the service manual on this car and any special tools under say $2,000.
 
There are still places where you have to drive five or more hours to get to an SC. Granted you don't have to normally visit an SC, but when you do, it shouldn't take multiple days for a service visit.

On that note, I wonder how strict they are on the Uber-credits-as-loaner policy... it worked fine for me, but I see no way it would work for someone who lives hours away from the nearest service center.
 
I wish Tesla would become partially open to Independent mechanics, they have partner with county colleges to become Tesla Tech to work for Tesla, they should let any willing person, Independent mechanics to get training there, after all Tesla has stated many time service is not a profit center for them.
I rather see it under Tesla's control just to be safe.

Didn't things go poorly at some Tesla approved body shops?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerry33
Having owned Tesla's for over 8 1/2 years, I really hate to say it but they have required more service calls/visits than any car I have had in over 35 years. Part of the issue is they do not release documentation (service manuals) so one is essentially forced to go to the service center. Take the TPMS on my Roadster. I was told they have to be replaced by Tesla. No local shop had a tool to reset nor even knew what part to order. So off I go to the nearest service center just 200 miles away. On my Volt any local tire shop can replace or I can go to the dealer, my choice.

On oil changes, tune ups, belts, transmission filters, I have always done those myself. Not hard and usually less time than setting up an appointment and having a shop do it. I prefer the lower maintenance of the Tesla and hopefully the initial problems/quirks have been worked out.

You are going to have to back that original Roadster out of the service equation. That has absolutely nothing in common with the cars coming out of Freemont today. Even the original S is not the same car. Our two Model 3's have been the first cars that didn't need warranty service work in the first year (out of 5 new cars). And the last earnings call Musk said the average warranty work per car has been declining since we took delivery of ours.

I'm not a fan of posting such a small sample size of personal experience, especially when it involves an obsolete model, so I'm wondering what your intent was when you posted yours? Because it doesn't really add anything. Just look at the warranty cost decline each quarter of the current models. And there is no point in waxing poetic about doing your own maintenance on gasoline cars. You still have to go pick up the parts, do the work and dispose of the old oil/filters/parts, just to get to where you would be with an EV. Except you're going to have to do it all over again in a few more months.
 
I'm with ya on other options. I also do my own work on everything I can, so I'm with @dhrivnak too. Sucks I can't do the powerwall myself but I think that's SRP rules here, maybe Tesla too. (They can have the roof though, 2 story, I choose life.)

On topic, here's what I'm hearing... Many here bought despite no SC nearby, others didn't and maybe aren't even on this forum - we don't know, but Tesla does. (OK, I'm sure we'll find one here soon).

I think they're growing just fine. The factory and product are still being refined. So those little office visits to the SC might become a rare event. When that happens, someone's going to complain about profits here or that their SC costs too much. Delicate balance and it's dynamic.

Eventually, I want the service manual on this car and any special tools under say $2,000.
I didn't want to click the Disagree button because in this venue it's considered, well, disagreeable. But I think user-serviceability will be hard to come by for quite a while, given the 350 volts that while well-marked is present in lots of places. We've had a century to culturally adapt to civilians casually managing huge quantities of highly explosive liquid, mostly because there was no other choice if we were to have the amazing mobility it provided. As electric vehicles get better they'll require even less service, making it easier (and cheaper) to leave the internals to the pros.
 
There are still places where you have to drive five or more hours to get to an SC. Granted you don't have to normally visit an SC, but when you do, it shouldn't take multiple days for a service visit.

Musk has recognized numerous times that new service centers drive growth in those areas. The fact that they are selling the volumes they are currently selling with a service network still in it's infancy is a positive, not a negative. With Tesla's only affordable offerings currently being limited market share sedans, which primarily appeal to urban dwellers, it makes sense to not fully build out the service network until they have the more desirable crossover available.

Tesla has a number of demand triggers at their disposal for stimulating future growth. We have only just begun! :cool:
 
You are going to have to back that original Roadster out of the service equation. That has absolutely nothing in common with the cars coming out of Freemont today. Even the original S is not the same car. Our two Model 3's have been the first cars that didn't need warranty service work in the first year (out of 5 new cars). And the last earnings call Musk said the average warranty work per car has been declining since we took delivery of ours.

I'm not a fan of posting such a small sample size of personal experience, especially when it involves an obsolete model, so I'm wondering what your intent was when you posted yours? Because it doesn't really add anything. Just look at the warranty cost decline each quarter of the current models.

That's because they're trying to evade warranty claims. Go look at the "yellowing screen" thread in the Model X forum -- people are winning arbitration cases against Tesla over this. Repeatedly.

Warranty reserve is too low. This isn't make-or-break, financially; they can afford higher warranty costs, up to what I would estimate the actual costs are. It's the bad attitude people are getting from Service which is hurting the company, as it's generating negative word-of-mouth fast. You lose one arbitration, maybe stop doing the same thing to other people...
 
Musk has recognized numerous times that new service centers drive growth in those areas.
What kills me is that he recognizes this and then the company screws up the extremely basic thing of making it possible for people to get a first point of contact with service.

Tesla has a number of demand triggers at their disposal for stimulating future growth. We have only just begun! :cool:

All they have to do is answer their phones. Really, that is all. But if they don't, demand will dry up faster than you can imagine.