Service and communication (out of main)

[dhrivnak]

You are going to have to back that original Roadster out of the service equation. That has absolutely nothing in common with the cars coming out of Freemont today. Even the original S is not the same car. Our two Model 3's have been the first cars that didn't need warranty service work in the first year (out of 5 new cars). And the last earnings call Musk said the average warranty work per car has been declining since we took delivery of ours.

I'm not a fan of posting such a small sample size of personal experience, especially when it involves an obsolete model, so I'm wondering what your intent was when you posted yours? Because it doesn't really add anything. Just look at the warranty cost decline each quarter of the current models. And there is no point in waxing poetic about doing your own maintenance on gasoline cars. You still have to go pick up the parts, do the work and dispose of the old oil/filters/parts, just to get to where you would be with an EV. Except you're going to have to do it all over again in a few more months.

Two service visits were for my 3. One, the glove box kept popping open on bumps and second the Frunk would not open. Fortunately both relatively minor Ranger visits. But that is the same number of visits my Volt has had in 3X the miles and more visits than my Avalanche at 7X the miles. Yes EV's are better, and will continue to get better, but they are also new and not all bugs or issues have been worked out.

 

[Sudre]

I wish Tesla would become partially open to Independent mechanics, they have partner with county colleges to become Tesla Tech to work for Tesla, they should let any willing person, Independent mechanics to get training there, after all Tesla has stated many time service is not a profit center for them.

I had asked my mechanic while dropping my wife's almost 20 year old Toyota off for it's routine services if they would ever become an EV or Tesla service station. He said the training costs alone just for one guy would not be worth the money until Tesla has a MUCH larger market share and almost half those vehicles are out of the warranty stage. It might make sense in CA, not so much in the middle states.

 

[neroden]

I had asked my mechanic while dropping my wife's almost 20 year old Toyota off for it's routine services if they would ever become an EV or Tesla service station. He said the training costs alone just for one guy would not be worth the money until Tesla has a MUCH larger market share and almost half those vehicles are out of the warranty stage. It might make sense in CA, not so much in the middle states.

On the other hand, the independent (no franchise) shops I've dealt with will take any opportunity to have an edge, including training a guy to handle EVs.

 

[Sudre]

I have had my Tesla since Feb 2013 and I am very happy we have a service center. The car makes at least one $2000 repair trip and 1 service trip a year. I am trying out the ranger service this time. When it was under warranty it made two or three trips a year until almost everything "EV" has now been replaced except the battery. (crossing figures the last few things hang in there) I will admit that it's expected early VIN issues. First cars off a brand new line and design typically have extra problems. HOWEVER with that experience I can tell you things are going down hill.

Also on the independent mechanic side. I am trying a third party reputable glass replacement company since Tesla Rangers are so busy. They are having serious problems getting parts.... so that's not going to work either. The manager noted that it wasn't like that before but something has recently changed and they can't get a hold of anyone. Their contact is gone.
Any broken glass should be a same day replacement thing, or at least within a few days. This looks like it will be at least a month.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Tesla is growing without pre-existing infrastructure. No Dealerships, no "gas stations", nothing! Solution takes time and money, which they're trying to make, I think.

Long-term solution might be to have a loaner car come to you on FSD if needed, and beef up (stock and train) a stealthy Mobile Service. But a shop in every major town, do the math (I didn't, but I have great imagination). Not now anyway... as a shareholder. And I do hear you on the 5hr trip. It's one reason I dread going back to the countryside in BC for retirement, no Home Depot or Parts store nearby. I know what that's like too.

I think he's fighting the brick and mortar... ever since he said all sales offices are closing. He has a vision here that's different I think.

 

[Chasingmars]

What kills me is that he recognizes this and then the company screws up the extremely basic thing of making it possible for people to get a first point of contact with service.
All they have to do is answer their phones. Really, that is all.

Well, maybe things are getting a little better... I just emailed the web store earlier this afternoon (yes, I know, different from the car service side of things, but still, my previous email to them seemed to go into a black hole) to ask for a copy of my receipt so I could submit a rebate claim on my wall connector... and I got a reply back, from a person, not automated, with my receipt attached, less than five minutes later!

p.s. not sure why you disagree'd my last post @neroden...

 

[neroden]

Well, maybe things are getting a little better... I just emailed the web store earlier this afternoon (yes, I know, different from the car service side of things, but still, my previous email to them seemed to go into a black hole) to ask for a copy of my receipt so I could submit a rebate claim on my wall connector... and I got a reply back, from a person, not automated, with my receipt attached, less than five minutes later!

Good news!

p.s. not sure why you disagree'd my last post @neroden...

Feeling very grumpy about all this, I don't remember which post it was but I'm sure there was *something* to disagree with.

Still, my bottom line is, for corporate survival, it has to be possible to reach someone through some documented channel which any customer can use, not just through "knowing someone who knows someone's email address". Preferably phone. Online chat would be OK (though not for the blind!) and email would be OK if it was responded to quickly, which it is not. (Also, the correct email for contacting Tesla Service? Totally unclear from the website)

 

[abasile]

We just had a follow up mobile service visit today, and again, we were very pleased with the experience as well as the preceding phone and text communication from Tesla. From chatting with the technician, I came away with the clear impression that Tesla is not having real difficulty keeping up with mobile service requests in the Southern California area. It seems that the technicians, for the most part, have rather sane work schedules and not much overtime.

As to yellowing around the edges of touchscreens, I should mention that we have noticed this on our Model S, as we did have the screen replaced a couple of years ago or so. This just seems to be such a minor issue, and it doesn’t bother us, so we have not complained to Tesla.

As I have mentioned before, I think that Tesla should make it easy to talk with a human being when calling their main number. Some areas do need more service centers. Uber or Lyft credits may work for some service center customers, but not for everyone. However, it seems most important for Tesla to make parts reasonably available and to grant service appointments without undue delay, and it appears to me that Tesla is making progress in those areas.

 

[neroden]

We just had a follow up mobile service visit today, and again, we were very pleased with the experience as well as the preceding phone and text communication from Tesla. From chatting with the technician, I came away with the clear impression that Tesla is not having real difficulty keeping up with mobile service requests in the Southern California area.

Well, since you can't make mobile service requests directly any more, I'm not surprised.

According to multiple sources, the only way to reach Mobile Service now is to first schedule an appointment with a service center. Then the service center decides whether to ask Mobile Service whether they can handle it, and *if* they bother to ask Mobile Service, Mobile Service has the option of saying no they can't do it.

Yeah, they won't have much work. Nice relaxing schedule. Not good for the company though.

It seems that the technicians, for the most part, have rather sane work schedules and not much overtime.

As I have mentioned before, I think that Tesla should make it easy to talk with a human being when calling their main number.

This is life or death for the company.

Some areas do need more service centers.

I recognize that they're working on this. Finally the Henrietta service center can be scheduled online.

However, it seems most important for Tesla to make parts reasonably available and to grant service appointments without undue delay, and it appears to me that Tesla is making progress in those areas.

They are, except that now you have to make a service appointment just in order to talk to someone, which is clogging up the service appointment calendar unnecessarily.

 

[SOULPEDL]

That's because they're trying to evade warranty claims. Go look at the "yellowing screen" thread in the Model X forum -- people are winning arbitration cases against Tesla over this. Repeatedly.

Warranty reserve is too low. This isn't make-or-break, financially; they can afford higher warranty costs, up to what I would estimate the actual costs are. It's the bad attitude people are getting from Service which is hurting the company, as it's generating negative word-of-mouth fast. You lose one arbitration, maybe stop doing the same thing to other people...

I looked. Sucks, but here's another opinion.

No car is ever perfect. I have had several cars in the past (Range Rover, Porsche, Infiniti, BMW) that had cosmetic defects such as dash lifting, door gaps, seat bubbles, finish rubbing off, lettering coming off buttons, ect. Rarely does a manufacturer ever warranty cosmetic issues. If this even has made you regret buying a Tesla, you are going to be similarly regret buying from every other car company as well.

The fact that Tesla investigated a fix and is providing it free of charge is an action that rarely would ever happen from any other company.

These screens must be expensive. I would have thought they'd replace them all. I think the crutch that it was thought to be repairable (Engineering) made it an odd case in pending. But the Model X??? where there are some margins??? Guess who's going to start making their screens now... and ya have to wonder why the screen manufacturer didn't cover it. Is this a turd just rolling downhill?

 

[SOULPEDL]

I have had my Tesla since Feb 2013 and I am very happy we have a service center. The car makes at least one $2000 repair trip and 1 service trip a year. I am trying out the ranger service this time. When it was under warranty it made two or three trips a year until almost everything "EV" has now been replaced except the battery. (crossing figures the last few things hang in there) I will admit that it's expected early VIN issues. First cars off a brand new line and design typically have extra problems. HOWEVER with that experience I can tell you things are going down hill.

Also on the independent mechanic side. I am trying a third party reputable glass replacement company since Tesla Rangers are so busy. They are having serious problems getting parts.... so that's not going to work either. The manager noted that it wasn't like that before but something has recently changed and they can't get a hold of anyone. Their contact is gone.
Any broken glass should be a same day replacement thing, or at least within a few days. This looks like it will be at least a month.

Speaking of glass, I think they underestimated on glass production for spares in Arizona. They set our appt out 10 days out on our Model 3 glass. They should have stock (at least a few given that some cracks make the car illegal to drive). Interesting topic... Service actually called me back to confirm they would call if it's not shipped in time, but "they get regular shipments of glass now so we should be fine", we'll see.
Setting up the appt on the app was super easy. The glass option was listed, so that was cool. I did not need to talk to anyone. I did, however, talk to 2 other glass companies (Safelite and Blue Chip). Both strung me along like they had the glass, but when I insisted on them telling me where it was located, they finally came clean and couldn't give a date. My Allstate insurance company is butt sore that others can't make the glass (maybe they can but haven't yet?). Meanwhile, Tesla won't deal with insurance on this. Maybe it was the tweet about Tesla Insurance, I don't know. He's a Trump fan, so not friendly to EVs I bet.

I get this is a rant thread on Tesla service, but this spun off the Investor thread and that's my priority here too. We don't have all the facts or the plans. Just people complaining legit stuff. I'm sure Tesla hears it, and they will respond... but maybe not on your timeline. I just sense Tesla is on such a bigger mission, the noise doesn't bother me because of a trust I have, and there's no way I could do any better. Could they, sure. Should they... depends on the numbers while growing like crazy.

The "Tesla is doomed" because of Service stories I'm reading... I don't buy it.

 

[abasile]

Well, since you can't make mobile service requests directly any more, I'm not surprised.

Recently, I had no trouble making a mobile service appointment for both cars using the Tesla app, and the wait was not too long.

 

[Matias]

All they have to do is answer their phones. Really, that is all..

 

[cpa]

I'm sure Tesla hears it, and they will respond... but maybe not on your timeline. I just sense Tesla is on such a bigger mission, the noise doesn't bother me because of a trust I have, and there's no way I could do any better. Could they, sure. Should they... depends on the numbers while growing like crazy.

We have had our Model S for over five years. We have had our Model 3 for eighteen months.

Over the years, we have had several issues with both cars. I infer the following from Tesla's perpetually shifting approaches to service:

Many issues are common and recurring and can be fixed by mobile technicians, inter alia, door handles, glass, 12V battery, door/trunk issues, window motors.

Other issues are less common and cannot be performed by the mobile techs, inter alia, battery cooling system, drive motors, traction battery problems. I do not know how the customer is supposed to notify Tesla with these issues and get timely responses from Tesla with solutions. We had an issue with the battery on our Model 3 in March. The mobile app was apparently on hiatus for our location. We needed to have the car towed to the Service Center. The Service Center told us to call Roadside Assistance. Roadside Assistance told us the first available time was in four days even though our appointment at the Service Center was in two days. No one likes to be whipsawed like this. It was suggested by a couple of Tesla folks for us to drive to the Service Center even though the battery would not charge one scintilla. Really? A 145-mile drive with a 60% battery level, and you want me to drive 45 MPH so we can make it--maybe?

Then there are the weird, one-off problems that leaves Tesla's service center employees scratching their heads. On our Model 3, the sensors for the surrounding cars and the speed limit sign for the road do not appear when the temperatures are warm. The "auto" headlights stay on during the day. The back up camera does not work about 25% of the time. I have reported these issues to the mobile tech when he was out for other issues, and he said to take pictures and forward them to him. Sorta hard to take pictures while driving and not risk accident or citation. The company line was that the next software update would correct these issues. Nope. Because the sensors are messed up, Autopilot does not operate, either.

Maybe this new approach will work. But I sense that there is little direct guidance from Palo Alto/Fremont. I sense that the Service Centers are told how the process is supposed to work, and then it is up to the local centers to figure out what to do.

Finally, I wonder what the employee turnover is within the Service Departments across the nation. That too might figure into why we have these inconsistencies.

Most of us have cut Tesla a whole lot of slack over the years. We want Tesla to succeed and prosper. With so many new cars on the road, and an aging fleet that is still on the road, Tesla has to figure out how best to service all these cars as efficiently and as reasonably as possible.

 

[neroden]

Followup: I just found out that any service center which is fully booked registers on the website as "can't book online" / "nonexistent", and the website directs you to the next service center hundreds of miles away rather than giving you a way to contact the fully-booked service center.

Geez.

 

[StealthP3D]

Two service visits were for my 3. One, the glove box kept popping open on bumps and second the Frunk would not open. Fortunately both relatively minor Ranger visits.

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly so tell me what I have wrong:

1) Your Model 3 only had two minor problems.
2) The glovebox would pop open when you hit a bump and the frunk needed an adjustment.
3) Both times Tesla service came to you and fixed the issue without charge.
4) You consider this a problem.


Please don't sign up for the first colonization trip to Mars. I guarantee it will not be satisfactory.

 

[sweter]

Speaking of glass, I think they underestimated on glass production for spares in Arizona. They set our appt out 10 days out on our Model 3 glass. They should have stock (at least a few given that some cracks make the car illegal to drive). Interesting topic... Service actually called me back to confirm they would call if it's not shipped in time, but "they get regular shipments of glass now so we should be fine", we'll see.
Setting up the appt on the app was super easy. The glass option was listed, so that was cool. I did not need to talk to anyone. I did, however, talk to 2 other glass companies (Safelite and Blue Chip). Both strung me along like they had the glass, but when I insisted on them telling me where it was located, they finally came clean and couldn't give a date. My Allstate insurance company is butt sore that others can't make the glass (maybe they can but haven't yet?). Meanwhile, Tesla won't deal with insurance on this. Maybe it was the tweet about Tesla Insurance, I don't know. He's a Trump fan, so not friendly to EVs I bet.

I get this is a rant thread on Tesla service, but this spun off the Investor thread and that's my priority here too. We don't have all the facts or the plans. Just people complaining legit stuff. I'm sure Tesla hears it, and they will respond... but maybe not on your timeline. I just sense Tesla is on such a bigger mission, the noise doesn't bother me because of a trust I have, and there's no way I could do any better. Could they, sure. Should they... depends on the numbers while growing like crazy.

The "Tesla is doomed" because of Service stories I'm reading... I don't buy it.

OT glass:
I'm waiting for windshield replacement and in the meantime went to a local glass service for a temporary fix. They said they have dealt with Tesla's in the past, old Model S's and there are cheaper replacement glass available for them (S's, not 3's, yet). However, there's a caveat that apparently after changing the windshield the front facing cameras need to be recalibrated and only Tesla themselves know how to do it / have the equipment to do it. Makes sense, I guess.

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly so tell me what I have wrong:

1) Your Model 3 only had two minor problems.
2) The glovebox would pop open when you hit a bump and the frunk needed an adjustment.
3) Both times Tesla service came to you and fixed the issue without charge.
4) You consider this a problem.


Please don't sign up for the first colonization trip to Mars. I guarantee it will not be satisfactory.

I guess the point is that "EV's don't break / don't need maintainance so don't worry if there is no SC in your city" is a myth.

Oh well, I bought a Tesla anyway even though there wasn't any service center in my *country* until few weeks ago

 

[SOULPEDL]

OT glass:
I'm waiting for windshield replacement and in the meantime went to a local glass service for a temporary fix. They said they have dealt with Tesla's in the past, old Model S's and there are cheaper replacement glass available for them (S's, not 3's, yet). However, there's a caveat that apparently after changing the windshield the front facing cameras need to be recalibrated and only Tesla themselves know how to do it / have the equipment to do it. Makes sense, I guess.

OT, not the Model 3 - it's self aligning but nobody actually knows that it seems (insurance, outside shops...).

 

[MarcusMaximus]

According to multiple sources, the only way to reach Mobile Service now is to first schedule an appointment with a service center. Then the service center decides whether to ask Mobile Service whether they can handle it, and *if* they bother to ask Mobile Service, Mobile Service has the option of saying no they can't do it.

Yeah, they won't have much work. Nice relaxing schedule. Not good for the company though

I don’t believe this is true. The app appears to choose mobile service first and only redirects to service center if mobile service is unavailable in the near future. I can book a mobile service appointment right now.

It’s a tad bit strange that you can’t override it and directly ask for a service center(except via the website, which only does service centers for some reason), but I’m guessing they don’t want to overload the service centers with people whose issues can be solved by a mobile tech.

 

[abasile]

Followup: I just found out that any service center which is fully booked registers on the website as "can't book online" / "nonexistent", and the website directs you to the next service center hundreds of miles away rather than giving you a way to contact the fully-booked service center.

Perhaps that approach would be acceptable in an area like mine, in SoCal, where there are three Tesla service centers within 1.5 hours' drive (none closer than a 1 hour drive).

It would be better to show the earliest possible appointments at the nearest N service centers. If a given service center has no available appointment for months, that should be shown.

I agree that part of the problem is likely "fake appointments" being created by customers simply trying to get help, where a phone call might otherwise suffice.