Service center asked me to tell them what to replace to fix my car.

[stevem]

I've been having a GPS issue since October (GPS stops working or veers off course and moves on it's own away from my actual location). I've had multiple open tickets etc. Service center had my car twice for this. Cleaned out cashes and replaced the gyro board. I've done so many resets etc. Gave them time stamps up the wazoo.

i was just called and they said "Well it could be the GPS antenna which is $1500 or it could be the MCU which is $2000. You are going to have to tell us what to replace. We don't know what will fix this, we can't diagnose this so we are just guessing. And we aren't going to be on the hook for these costs. So you (I) have to tell us (Tesla) what you want replaced and if you guess wrong, sorry you will have to pay for that. So what do you want us to do?"

The car is out of warranty. And I don't mind paying for failed parts. But I hate paying to throw parts at a problem by guessing. How am I supposed to diagnose this? How should I tell them this?

 

[ckoval7]

Well alright. You'd think something like this would get escalated to the engineers in California. You can't be the only car in the whole fleet with the problem. I want to know what about the GPS antenna costs $1500. Is that including the labor to access it and rerun the cables?

 

[mswlogo]

When you first described the problem before I got to the options I was gonna say GPS Antenna.
Does seem weird that they can't diagnose and know what to fix or back their diagnosis.
That's what you pay the big bucks for, to get to the heart of the problem and replace only what's broken.

I'd tweet that one to Elon.

 

[stevem]

I've had three (at least) tickets open for California (2 escalation tickets). Still haven't heard from them regarding the most recent ticket (been a month now). But the first escalation ticket, they said "we can't figure out what's going on remotely, you will need to take it to a service center".

First time the SC cleared the cache, then I did a factory reset. Then they replaced the gyro/connectivity board (I was expecting a 3g to LTE update from this but they said it's not that kind of connectivity).

As for the GPS antenna they will need to replace the whole rear window glass (I know it's under the glass). They said they can't save it. So Antenna, window and labor they said was $1500. Or it could be the MCU and that's $2000.

I wanted to format the MCU and load the software back on because it seemed like a software bug to me. When the vehicle is moving, and the GPS is stationary (twice when I have called) the person I spoke to said that he was receiving 12 GPS sat signals and was using 9 for location. And the arrow was stationary on the screen while driving. Which makes me think it's not the GPS antenna.

 

[Don85D]

Swapping known good parts to search for a failed part is common practise. They should be able to find the bad component even if it's only loose cable connection.

 

[swegman]

The gps antenna costs $1500 because they need to replace the rear hatch glass and possibly the third brake light assembly. The antenna is built into the hatch glass. Poor design choice.

I had similar issues after a software update was installed. But Tesla said the problem was the antenna. As they were paying for the repair I let them go ahead with replacing the antenna. Of course it made no difference. I still had the problem until a subsequent software update was installed.

Do you recall whether your issues started shortly after your car’s software was updated? I would not have the MCU replaced if you have to pay for it. Highly unlikely that is the culprit. Based on my experience I also think it is not the antenna but a glitch in the car’s software.

 

[bmah]

Can you take the car to a different service center?

Bruce.

 

[stevem]

Swapping known good parts to search for a failed part is common practice. They should be able to find the bad component even if it's only loose cable connection.

Yes, but they said they would not swap parts unless I bought the new parts for swapping and if they didn't fix anything, I would have to pay for the parts regardless.

The gps antenna costs $1500 because they need to replace the rear hatch glass and possibly the third brake light assembly. The antenna is built into the hatch glass. Poor design choice.

I had similar issues after a software update was installed. But Tesla said the problem was the antenna. As they were paying for the repair I let them go ahead with replacing the antenna. Of course it made no difference. I still had the problem until a subsequent software update was installed.

Do you recall whether your issues started shortly after your car’s software was updated? I would not have the MCU replaced if you have to pay for it. Highly unlikely that is the culprit. Based on my experience I also think it is not the antenna but a glitch in the car’s software.

Happened right after the 9.0 update in October, and has been problematic every since. Or course I've had 3 more updates since then and the problem remains. I asked if they could format the MCU flash memory and reload the software clean on it and they said no, they wanted me to buy a new MCU which would come with the new software.

Can you take the car to a different service center? Bruce.

I work in Paramus NJ so the Paramus NJ SC is the closest. I might have to consider calling different locations and asking others if they have other ideas.

 

[markb1]

I wanted to format the MCU and load the software back on because it seemed like a software bug to me. When the vehicle is moving, and the GPS is stationary (twice when I have called) the person I spoke to said that he was receiving 12 GPS sat signals and was using 9 for location. And the arrow was stationary on the screen while driving. Which makes me think it's not the GPS antenna.

It really sounds like the GPS antenna is working fine.

I was having weird problems with my NAV. It would often show my car on adjacent roads to where I really was, and pointing the wrong direction. After several service visits, they finally replaced the MCU, and that solved it. Fortunately, that was under warranty.

 

[stevem]

It really sounds like the GPS antenna is working fine.

I was having weird problems with my NAV. It would often show my car on adjacent roads to where I really was, and pointing the wrong direction. After several service visits, they finally replaced the MCU, and that solved it. Fortunately, that was under warranty.

Although, in order to get more data, when I was driving around today the arrow was doing what you just described. The arrow almost always points the direction I'm going, just it slowly veers away from actual location and starts shadowing my movements. Just slightly off of where I am.

I've called them when the arrow was stationary and got the "it sees 9 satellites and is using them for navigation", but today when the arrow was moving just not where my car's location was, they said that it wasn't receiving any satellites. Actually the lady I talked to said that after doing a reset the sat signal looked really weird.

Unfortunately I'm out of warranty and I get that I have to pay for parts that are broken or have failed, I just wish I didn't have to pay for them to throw part after part hoping to get lucky and fix it. The SC did say it could be the MCU, or it could be the antenna, but they just can't tell which till I pay for one and have them put it in.

 

[aerodyne]

Swapping known good parts to search for a failed part is common practise. They should be able to find the bad component even if it's only loose cable connection.

It sure is, even at ICE car Stealerships

 

[D.E.]

Is there a place where the GPS antenna wire plugs into the computer?

If so and if he can find an inexpensive GPS antenna that will plug into the same place, he might be able to try that to see if it fixes the problem. If it works with the inexpensive GPS antenna, the antenna is the problem. If it makes no difference, then the issue is with something else so no sense replacing the antenna/window in the car.

 

[stevem]

Is there a place where the GPS antenna wire plugs into the computer?

If so and if he can find an inexpensive GPS antenna that will plug into the same place, he might be able to try that to see if it fixes the problem. If it works with the inexpensive GPS antenna, the antenna is the problem. If it makes no difference, then the issue is with something else so no sense replacing the antenna/window in the car.

They did call me back and they said the tech was thinking of trying something like this. He said he could rig up a new antenna without ripping out the rear window glass and gluing it all down to see if that fixed it. I saw somewhere there are 3 wires through the car that connect the antenna to the computer. Could be any of those connections as well. Or a pinched wire anywhere in there.

Unless when it's misbehaving the GPS signal is working correctly. I wish I had that insight into how that is working.

 

[Saghost]

Although, in order to get more data, when I was driving around today the arrow was doing what you just described. The arrow almost always points the direction I'm going, just it slowly veers away from actual location and starts shadowing my movements. Just slightly off of where I am.

I've called them when the arrow was stationary and got the "it sees 9 satellites and is using them for navigation", but today when the arrow was moving just not where my car's location was, they said that it wasn't receiving any satellites. Actually the lady I talked to said that after doing a reset the sat signal looked really weird.

Unfortunately I'm out of warranty and I get that I have to pay for parts that are broken or have failed, I just wish I didn't have to pay for them to throw part after part hoping to get lucky and fix it. The SC did say it could be the MCU, or it could be the antenna, but they just can't tell which till I pay for one and have them put it in.

The slow veering and shadowing does sound like a car Nav system using inertial and compass data to update the location in the absence of GPS signals. (Doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad antenna - could be anywhere along the signal path.)

That's exactly what happened with my VW - I'd replaced the stereo with the factory navigation version, and the dash mounted antenna wasn't the best (car didn't have the factory version in the trunk lid,) so occasionally in bad weather it would lose the satellites.

That system would snap to roads that were within a couple hundred feet of where it thought the car was, so the map and nav results got interesting once it lost the freeway I was on and decided I must be on the local roads I was driving over.

 

[stevem]

The slow veering and shadowing does sound like a car Nav system using inertial and compass data to update the location in the absence of GPS signals. (Doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad antenna - could be anywhere along the signal path.)

That's exactly what happened with my VW - I'd replaced the stereo with the factory navigation version, and the dash mounted antenna wasn't the best (car didn't have the factory version in the trunk lid,) so occasionally in bad weather it would lose the satellites.

That system would snap to roads that were within a couple hundred feet of where it thought the car was, so the map and nav results got interesting once it lost the freeway I was on and decided I must be on the local roads I was driving over.

That's exactly how it looks. I always said it looks like it's tracking with wheel rotation counts and steering angle. And it does NOT snap to roads. It starts out ok, but slowly gets further and further off course. It mirrors my movements, but shows me off in the woods, driving through lakes and streams etc.

I don't know if I have great troubleshooting information. But I have been told that when the GPS is misbehaving and the arrow is stationary while the vehicle is in motion, I have been told that it saw satellites and was "using them for navigation" (which was weird cause the arrow on the screen wasn't moving). But then yesterday when it was moving and tracking my movements, but many feet away from my actual location, the lady I was on the phone with said the car "saw 14 satelites but wasn't connected to any of them". Which I find a weird phrase since they don't really connect to GPS sats. But I assume it meant that it wasn't receiving data from any of them for navigation.

 

[chillaban]

It really sucks but unfortunately I’ve had this experience on American and German cars too. Literally nobody has a “we guarantee our proposed fix will work or you can have your money back” policy, which is what I really want.

It is unfair that I pay for what I perceive to be their incompetence in diagnosis — if anything I feel like I’m rewarding them for not correctly troubleshooting.

That’s one of the things that scares me about owning cars out of warranty

 

[dethman]

omg WTF what a bunch of retards.

 

[Chaserr]

Can you take the car to a different service center?

Bruce.

This is the first thing you should do, those guys are idiots. A competent service tech would have swapped in both of the parts already, both good ones from elsewhere and yours into another car, just to see if they can fix you and make the problem follow your parts. That's how competent techs solve problems fast and cheap, and don't grasp at expensive straws and admit to you that they're idiots.

Find a better service center and report to the manager of that one that their techs haven't heard of part testing or swapping which is basic troubleshooting anywhere.

 

[PunchIT]

I've been having a GPS issue since October (GPS stops working or veers off course and moves on it's own away from my actual location). I've had multiple open tickets etc. Service center had my car twice for this. Cleaned out cashes and replaced the gyro board. I've done so many resets etc. Gave them time stamps up the wazoo.

i was just called and they said "Well it could be the GPS antenna which is $1500 or it could be the MCU which is $2000. You are going to have to tell us what to replace. We don't know what will fix this, we can't diagnose this so we are just guessing. And we aren't going to be on the hook for these costs. So you (I) have to tell us (Tesla) what you want replaced and if you guess wrong, sorry you will have to pay for that. So what do you want us to do?"

The car is out of warranty. And I don't mind paying for failed parts. But I hate paying to throw parts at a problem by guessing. How am I supposed to diagnose this? How should I tell them this?

What year is your car? I had similar issue on my 2013, the service center first replaced the MCU, but that didn't solve the problem. Then they replaced the GPS antenna and the rear window. That fixed the problem.
My car was barely under warranty at the time due to the mileage, so I asked how much it would have cost out of warranty. The tech told me they would have covered that problem even if my car was out of warranty. It sounded like a design flaw to me.
May be you can talk to service center manager.
Good luck!

 

[stevem]

It's a 2015 85D AP1 (early 2015 build). I'm waiting to hear back from engineering, they claim they will be sending a ranger to take care of it after this.