Service center experience: trading my 3 in for a Mercedes

[Wennfred]

Found this cool story on a Model X with 400k miles and all of the parts that had to be replaced since. This model X was retired from this company and sold for 30k.

This Tesla Model X Has Driven Over 400,000 Miles. Here Are All The Parts That Had To Be Replaced

 

[Fresnel]

Found this cool story on a Model X with 400k miles and all of the parts that had to be replaced since. This model X was retired from this company and sold for 30k.

This Tesla Model X Has Driven Over 400,000 Miles. Here Are All The Parts That Had To Be Replaced

Fun fact. at 2.45/gallon of gas driving a 32mpg ICE car would cost $30,625 to drive 400k miles

 

[Uncle Paul]

And it would not be worth $30,000 with 400,000 miles on the clock.

 

[tvad]

This isn't a thing. OEMs value price/performance/reliability differently and some brands like BMW might be willing to skim closer to projected lifespans in return for more bang for the their buck but no one is sitting around building some sort of planned breakage to drive service.

My BMW service professional, who is one of the most respected BMW mechanics in Southern California and has been in the business of repairing and tuning BMWs for decades, would disagree.

It's no coincidence that some BMW parts require replacement soon after the factory warranty expires.

Skimming lifespan close to the bone is just another way of saying planned part failure. The effect to a consumer is the same, and it's THE primary reason we dumped BMW.

 

[jonquiljo]

Back to prompt and effective service repairs .... we need more Tesla service centers out there. You can't double the number of cars in a place like California every two years and expect the situation to be OK. Teslas may last a long while, and some may not need much (if any) service. But some will.

I don't want to wait 3 weeks to have something like a windshield wiper motor replaced. None of us do.

 

[ALSETJC]

My BMW service professional, who is one of the most respected BMW mechanics in Southern California and has been in the business of repairing and tuning BMWs for decades, would disagree.

It's no coincidence that some BMW parts require replacement soon after the factory warranty expires.

Skimming lifespan close to the bone is just another way of saying planned part failure. The effect to a consumer is the same, and it's THE primary reason we dumped BMW.

This has been similar to what my VW mechanic has said. German cars are specifically designed not to last. It has also been my experience over a slew of cars within the family. The long lasting cars always are Honda and Toyota, brands that don't practice planned obsolescence.

 

[Uncle Paul]

While all this has been going on, Tesla has been working their plan.

They are making much higher quality cars now. Warrany expenses have dropped and the cars need much less service than before. No longer do you need to change your differential gear every so many months etc.

They have cut out chit chat at dealerships. Owners get notified when their car is ready for pickup. They are not advised a couple times every day as to the latest (and usually inaccurate) estimates.

Paint has gotten much better, so fewer need to come in for corrective actions, Falcon wing doors are much more reliable, lighting has been improved, drive motors don't need replacement as often, and even the flush mounted door handles have been redesigned to be more robust.

Behind the scenes, Tesla is making constant improvements to reduce the number of cars needing service visits. Ranger services have gotten more capable, robust and effective.

Computerized analysis of service data gives them a day by day review of service requests.

I know it is easy to complain, especially when your greviances are valid, but I somehow believe that Tesla is getting a handle on their service system.

 

[linux-works]

sadly, tesla does not have motivation to spend money on adding new service centers.

in areas of the country where teslas are common, they sell themselves. people find out, after they buy, and then its too late. the sale is made and after that, the other side of tesla is cash-challenged to keep up.

in areas of the world where they are less common, only early adopters will buy them, and again, they'll typically put up with a lot more than the usual consumer will.

until tesla sees that it costs them real sales, they have no money-based reason to add more service centers. I kind of see their point, but its really short-term thinking and it will bite them (it already is, imho).

tesla just needs better BALANCE. its not all about sales, dammit. please, stop the push for sales, let the other groups catch up for, say, the next 3 months. (yeah, I'm dreaming).

 

[SlimJim]

Increasing sales revenue is still the top priority.
I still don't recommend Tesla to other people because it should be a personal decision at this point.
I have my fingers crossed for my Model 3 so it doesn't break down for a few years.

 

[jonquiljo]

While all this has been going on, Tesla has been working their plan.

They are making much higher quality cars now. Warrany expenses have dropped and the cars need much less service than before. No longer do you need to change your differential gear every so many months etc.

They have cut out chit chat at dealerships. Owners get notified when their car is ready for pickup. They are not advised a couple times every day as to the latest (and usually inaccurate) estimates.

Paint has gotten much better, so fewer need to come in for corrective actions, Falcon wing doors are much more reliable, lighting has been improved, drive motors don't need replacement as often, and even the flush mounted door handles have been redesigned to be more robust.

Behind the scenes, Tesla is making constant improvements to reduce the number of cars needing service visits. Ranger services have gotten more capable, robust and effective.

Computerized analysis of service data gives them a day by day review of service requests.

I know it is easy to complain, especially when your greviances are valid, but I somehow believe that Tesla is getting a handle on their service system.

And you were told about all of this from ......?

 

[Eclectic]

This has been similar to what my VW mechanic has said. German cars are specifically designed not to last. It has also been my experience over a slew of cars within the family. The long lasting cars always are Honda and Toyota, brands that don't practice planned obsolescence.

Funny, cause my 2008 VW Rabbit with the 2.5 5 cylinder just passed 170K miles and I've had it in the shop a grand total of once in 12 years. I am not good at doing the regular maintenance either (I basically just change tires when they are bald and add oil when it's low), and this has been my experience with other German cars I've owned (two Audis, a Mercedes and three BMWs). Same story with the BMW we got to replace our Tesla...never been in the shop and it has been outstanding in all respects (even getting close to 50 mpg).

Granted, our Teslas were also pretty trouble-free, but they had more issues than any of our German cars have had.

 

[jboy210]

Funny, cause my 2008 VW Rabbit with the 2.5 5 cylinder just passed 170K miles and I've had it in the shop a grand total of once in 12 years. I am not good at doing the regular maintenance either (I basically just change tires when they are bald and add oil when it's low), and this has been my experience with other German cars I've owned (two Audis, a Mercedes and three BMWs). Same story with the BMW we got to replace our Tesla...never been in the shop and it has been outstanding in all respects (even getting close to 50 mpg).

Granted, our Teslas were also pretty trouble-free, but they had more issues than any of our German cars have had.

Did you BMWs have 6 or 8 cylinder engines with turbos? The turbo-wastegate system has been a high failure rate during our BMW ownership (we have owned 8 or so). They died at around 60-70,000 and ran $7,000 or so to get back on the road. Expensive enough that we went to leases and only purchased one with 12,000 miles at the end of the lease.

 

[Eclectic]

Did you BMWs have 6 or 8 cylinder engines with turbos? The turbo-wastegate system has been a high failure rate during our BMW ownership (we have owned 8 or so). They died at around 60-70,000 and ran $7,000 or so to get back on the road. Expensive enough that we went to leases and only purchased one with 12,000 miles at the end of the lease.

The current BMW has a 4cyl turbo. The others were not turbos.

 

[Mtnrunner]

OP, your service experience probably says more about where you live than anything else. Also what service are going in for with an EV? The reason I abandoned ICEs is because of constant, expensive and repetitive service appointments. We drive a lot in the Colorado mountains and 5k oil changes just became too annoying and timely.

A friend of mine has a Mercedes and a M3 and it's just a matter of time before he dumps the ICE as he's constantly enraged by the exorbitant money Mercedes expects for basic fluid maintenance. Test drive the Merc, see what they offer you in trade and look at the maintenance schedule and resale value. You might change your mind

 

[Knightshade]

sadly, tesla does not have motivation to spend money on adding new service centers.

in areas of the country where teslas are common, they sell themselves. people find out, after they buy, and then its too late. the sale is made and after that, the other side of tesla is cash-challenged to keep up.

Tesla has almost 9 billion dollars on hand.

In cash.

BTW in 2019 Tesla increased physical locations by over 50, and almost doubled their mobile service fleet (411 to 743)

I agree they need to do even more- but the idea they're "not building more service centers" at all just ain't so.

Maybe they'll use some of the 2.3 billion they just raised last week to address this.

 

[OCR1]

In Orange County, CA, Tesla has opened up two service centers. They on in Santa Ana works only on Model 3. Techs get to work on the same cars over and over...very efficient.

2nd SC is in Coasta Mesa. They don't work on the popular Model 3, but do all the S/X/Coupes. They stock the parts necessary for these cars.

The last time I needed service on my Model 3 I went to Costa Mesa. I had no idea they opened a second service center in Santa Ana. How long has that been open? I tried scheduling a service appointment there just to see how busy they were and they had an opening for an appointment next Tuesday. Last time I tried it they were backlogged by at least three weeks. That’s great news for Orange County owners.

 

[jonquiljo]

Tesla has almost 9 billion dollars on hand.

In cash.

BTW in 2019 Tesla increased physical locations by over 50, and almost doubled their mobile service fleet (411 to 743)

I agree they need to do even more- but the idea they're "not building more service centers" at all just ain't so.

Maybe they'll use some of the 2.3 billion they just raised last week to address this.

Maybe they will. I hope they will. Time will tell.

Just FYI, if a company has "$9B cash on hand" it does not mean that it is (when all is computed) $9B in the black. It simply means that a company has $9B in cash that can be spent. On the other hand, if the company has $25B in debts, it really does not have it's wallet overflowing with cash.

It would be like if I had $2M in cash, but $12M in debts. I'm still short $10M.

Anyway, Tesla could use a couple of hundred million or so from their recent (or to be?) cash infusion to beef up product service and parts stocks. When a company takes on sales and service directly - it becomes a difficult task as they need to allot for those expenses out of their own pockets.

If Tesla is going to build all these cars, then they have to get the funds to pay to sell and service them. And there are a LOT of Tesla's around here - especially one's with "newer" license plate sequences (2019-2020).

 

[Knightshade]

Maybe they will. I hope they will. Time will tell.

Just FYI, if a company has "$9B cash on hand" it does not mean that it is (when all is computed) $9B in the black. It simply means that a company has $9B in cash that can be spent. On the other hand, if the company has $25B in debts, it really does not have it's wallet overflowing with cash.

It would be like if I had $2M in cash, but $12M in debts. I'm still short $10M.

That's only really an issue if the 12m is due right now... which it ain't for Tesla.

Teslas cash on hand increased by almost a billion last quarter, plus the 2.3 billion more they just raised last week (which brings them to almost 9B).

Teslas TOTAL debt is listed (end of Q4 2019) as:

~7.2 billion in recourse debt (the kind backed by collateral) and about 4.5 billion in unsecured debt.

Meaning (assuming they remain free cash positive going forward as they say they intend to) they could pay off their entire unsecured debt with about half their cash on hand.

Though assuming they've got good terms on that debt it'd make no sense to do so rather than invest it elsewhere.

Service centers probably being a good spot for it. Especially with the Y starting deliveries next month and expected to outsell the 3 significantly.


(there's also over a billion in deferred revenue currently on the sheets as a liability... most of that is likely the revenue from FSD sales pre-march-2019 that will turn into cash on hand if they ever actually deliver FSD- then again if they ever really do so cash on hand will probably cease being a concern )

 

[linux-works]

tesla does not make service a *priority*. either they don't have the cash to *spend* on it or they simply just don't care, right now. either way, its a hell of a way to treat customers; and we're the real salesmen. if we get treated bad, we talk to our friends and they probably will think twice about buying into this brand.

if they have cash, let them allocate it where its needed the most. SERVICE.

really pathetic that we're conditioned into thinking uber vouchers are OK. THEY ARE NOT OK. its laughable that even one person thinks abusing the gig economy is even partially ok, as a substitute for keeping cars IN STOCK and ON HAND.

 

[Knightshade]

tesla does not make service a *priority*. either they don't have the cash to *spend* on it or they simply just don't care, right now. either way, its a hell of a way to treat customers; and we're the real salesmen. if we get treated bad, we talk to our friends and they probably will think twice about buying into this brand.

if they have cash, let them allocate it where its needed the most. SERVICE.

really pathetic that we're conditioned into thinking uber vouchers are OK. THEY ARE NOT OK. its laughable that even one person thinks abusing the gig economy is even partially ok, as a substitute for keeping cars IN STOCK and ON HAND.

They literally can not build cars fast enough to meet demand.

Which means offering Uber credits and selling the $50,000+ car you'd otherwise be using as a loaner is the smart business choice. Especially when you multiply that $50,000 sale by the dozens you'd need to keep on hand, and multiple THAT number by the hundreds of service locations.

Especially when doing so appears to have no impact on said demand.


That said- I do think they should at least offer to rent you a car if you need one over the Uber credits- like you've got 6 different places to drive and with tight timelines or something the next day- from what I understand this used to be standard practice when they ran out of loaners in the pre-3 days- with Tesla and Enterprise having a specific agreement covering this and Enterprise picking up/dropped off AT Tesla to facilitate- I sometimes still hear about some places doing this but seems to be regional?

For myself the uber credits sound great.

When I used to bring my Lexus in for service they gave me a lower-end Lexus I had to drive around myself.

At least with Uber I'll be chauffeured where-ever I need to go! it's like FSD is already here!


(THAT said- the one time I did actually need to leave my 3 for service- windshield replacement- they gave me a Model S loaner... so again this all seems to vary by region)