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Service Manual and Test Tools (electronic)

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by lolachampcar, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    I'm buying the service plan.

    That being said, I would also like to purchase a shop manual and the required test tools. Has anyone considered this and had any feedback from Tesla on the subject? How did this work out for previous (or current) Roadster owners?
     
  2. Carlton Bale

    Carlton Bale Member

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    I'm interested in this as well.
     
  3. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    Shop Manual and Tools(electronic)

    I'm buying the service plan but would also like a shop manual and the necessary tools (scan tool/software) to service the car myself. Has anyone asked Tesla about this for the Model S (or the Roadster for that matter)?
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I don't think Tesla has ever released a shop manual for the Roadster. Will be nice when the day comes that you can go buy a Haynes manual for a vehicle made by Tesla.
     
  5. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I don't know of anyone who has been able to get a hold of service manual or test tools. Since Tesla doesn't have independent dealers there many not even be a "service manual" like we're used to seeing for other cars. It could literally be a haphazard bunch of PDFs and/or bits of paper combined w/ tribal lore of how to care for the cars. However MA recently passed a low that will require them to release this kind of info so we'll see.
     
  6. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    It's not completely obvious that Tesla will be affected by the new MA Right-to-Repair law. IANAL, but here's a key provision:

    [emphasis added]

    The relevant definitions are:
    Tesla is relying heavily in MA on the fact that it has no franchise dealerships. Assuming it prevails on that point, then Tesla is making no repair information or diagnostic tools available to any dealer, and therefore arguably does not need to make that information public to anyone else.
     
  7. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    Franchise protection is needed to keep manufactures from abusing thier franchisees. The requirement that service documentation is provided for thier product is designed to protect the owner by giving him/her more options.

    Once I take delivery, I own the car, not Tesla. If I need to service the car at some point in the future for whatever reason, I would like to be able to do so. I'll give this thread a bit more time then get a hold of Tesla directly.
     
  8. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    Someone, please, reverse engineer my ModelS for me!! Just give me a copy of your notes. Thank you very much.
    --
     
  9. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    Someone please reverse my Ferrari 458 for me!! Just give me a copy of your notes. Thank you very much.
    Really?

    Do you really believe the only reason someone would want documenation on manditory practices required to keep a warranty intact is to reverse engineer something? Is every other manufacturer on the planet stupid for providing shop manuals for thier cars?

    Design something, document it's service then come back and explain why the two are the same. Hint, they are not.
     
  10. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    The guys in the shop seem to have their faces buried in their laptops. Not sure if there even is a paper version.
     
  11. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Due to all of the high voltage, high current connections on the Model S drivetrain...I wonder how this would work? Anyone fiddling with the drivetrain is at high risk for shock unless they know what they're doing and they're careful. Anyone shocked has a high chance of death. Do you think this would affect Tesla's willingness to publish manuals or authorize end-user work on the drivetrain?
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    The headline almost writes itself:
    Some Fiskers were fried by Sandy, some Teslas fried their owners
     
  13. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    The high voltage concerns are understandable to say the least.

    The manuals being available in pdf would be consistant with most manufacturers these days. Virtually no one is printing stuff any more.

    What the documentation will provide is all the procedures for doing normal maintenance. Sure, the battery will go back to Tesla for service no matter who pulls it from the car. The same can be said for the motor or speed controller. Those are big tasks and should seldom be required.

    What is required are annual services and the like. Bleeding the air from the battery cooling system probably involves multiple bleed points with the coolant circulation pump running. Anyone know how to turn it on or where the bleed points are? Brake fluid should be swapped periodically to prevent moisure build up in the system. Some car's ABS components allow for suction or pressure bleeding while others require the use of a test tool to actuate some of the ABS solenoids. Those are but two of what I would guess would be a long list of very pedestrian maintenance functions that do not get anywhere near high voltage or opening battery packs or motors.

    This really is just normal stuff. I'm surprised there is such a reverence within the Tesla community and that their have not been more calls for proper documentation. This is not rocket science; that's the other company. Hopefully this is one thing that will change (for the better) with the Model S being a production volume car.
     
  14. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Read this thread - I know it's long but much of what you're asking about has been hashed out there including my own thoughts on the subject: Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB))
     
  15. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    People say the same thing about the Prius, yet owners are replacing traction battery packs and even rebuilding them. So far no injuries that I'm aware of, although a couple of owners have set fire to some individual NiMH cells when they had them out to charge. I agree that unless you are trained, or take some training, to work with high voltage you shouldn't be messing with it. I'm sure Tesla, like Toyota, has made the HV connections pretty obvious.

    I'd suggest that many in this forum are competent enough to do so if they had the service manual and the desire to do so.
     
  16. Vger

    Vger Active Member

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    I have seen and had the inside of a Tesla Roadster battery pack explained a little to me. "No user-serviceable parts inside" does not even BEGIN to describe it. (And, yes, I have worked on ICE cars and messed with electronics).
     
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    To be fair, there are equal dangers in servicing Gasoline powered motor vehicles.
     
  18. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    They should at least have a manual for the non-EV parts of the car (brakes, suspension, a/c, fluids, etc.). It's understandable if they don't want others poking into the EV parts (esp. the battery pack).
     
  19. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    strider,
    Thanks for the link. I've been in it before and had concerns about George's approach to the warranty void issue. I took those up in another thread.

    My reason for this thread is to test the waters with regards to, let's call it, field service. This is the type of stuff the average Tesla service technician would do with supporting documentation and software tools from the factory. I would think it would include, but not be limited to, the following-

    Purging cooling systems
    Purging braking systems
    Overall diagnostics (inrush current faults for amature winding degridation, cell set bypass for individual cell failures,,,) via a software interface be it a diagnostics function from the car's display or a dedicated CAN cable to the OBDii port and a PC (in case the 802.11 link is down).
    Service limits for pads and rotors
    Proper assembly/dissassembly procedures for everything from suspension to battery and motor R&R
    Alignment values
    and on and on and on

    What it would not include would be things like-
    How to overhaul the motor
    How to overhaul the battery
    How to overhaul the speed controller
    and on and on and on

    I seems like Tesla has chosen not to provide this documentation for the Roadster to its customers. I would guess this has occured becuase (1) the company was small and the project never made it to the top of the to do list and (2) volume was small enough that there was not sufficient momentum in the owner community to require it. Tesla wants to beat 740/750 delivery numbers in the US which takes them out of the too small catagory. My goal with this thread is to start the long term task of building customer consensus on the need for documentation.

    In summary, my goals here are not to have Tesla publish proprietary documentation on factory overhaul items. I am also not questioning the wisdom of the service plan on top of the warranty nor the stated requirement that Tesla personal must perform the preventitive maintenance elements for the warranty to stay in effect. These and other warranty related issues are being well covered in different threads.

    My goal is to gain access to reasonable service documentation and tools sufficient to allow owners to understand the service process and affect service if need be. There are no nafarious intentions nor do I feel this is an unreasonable request. All major automobile manufactures do this and thus I believe we can have the expectation that Tesla will as well.
     
  20. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I disagree. There are risks for explosion when dealing with fuel lines, for instance...but those are small compared to the risk of electrocution/death if you touch a lead coming from the battery pack. Can you provide an example where servicing an ICE car is equally dangerous?
     

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