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Service Records for CPO cars

Discussion in 'Model S' started by kyalami, May 7, 2015.

  1. kyalami

    kyalami Member

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    My DS called this afternoon and told me that my CPO purchase would be ready in 2 weeks for pickup at the SC closest to my house.

    Fantastic!

    Will owners of CPO cars have access to previous service records? It would be nice to know what items have been repaired, replaced, etc?

    Anybody know?
     
  2. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Oh, I would love a copy of the previous service records for my CPO!
     
  3. skboston

    skboston Member

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    I think you should call your DS and ask, if I'm not mistaken if you're buying from another owner, the records unless supplied by the owner aren't shared with you by Tesla.
    I don't know if it's true or not as it doesn't make sense for sure.
     
  4. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    Not sure for a CPO car, but when I got my inventory car I asked for service history and the SC manager emailed me the records.
     
  5. luvnMyTS

    luvnMyTS Member

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    Nope, They just called me about it today. I have no access to documents on their website. They called and said it's "because you bought secondhand". Maybe it's just me, but that statement kind of made me feel like a second hand loser. I love, love, love my car, but definitely have not been too happy with Tesla as a company.
     
  6. tenstringer009

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    That's disappointing. Toyota/Lexus are on the complete opposite side of this issue. They allow you to look up the service records of any vehicle you have the VIN of in their online owners' portal (assuming it was serviced at a dealership). I've used it multiple times when I've been looking at a used vehicle; I think it's hugely helpful, and I wish more manufacturers made it as easy.
     
  7. TomServo

    TomServo Member

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    When ever I bought a pre-owned GM vehicle I would always ask for and get a copy of their GMVIS report. It shows everything EVER done to the car by ANY GM dealership. Of course that assumes the servicing dealer input the event. Some things like oil changes or other routine services may not be entered. But everything done as a warranty claim or recall was listed.

    I would have to think Tesla has that same info that can be provided.

    I'm looking at a CPO car to and am interested in the answer to this question.
     
  8. kyalami

    kyalami Member

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    Agreed! Given the issues that have been documented here at TMC it would be extremely helpful to know at what level the car is in terms of updates, repairs and replacement parts. Since they are giving a 4 year 50k warranty what's the harm? I love everything that Tesla stands for but I think that issues like this need to be consistent with the rest of their positioning in the market.
     
  9. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Doesn't surprise me, what with how data gets collected and then used against Tesla. I can see it now, everyone starts reporting their service records here on TMC, someone else makes a nifty chart, and within a week's time no less than a half dozen articles come out about how much maintenance Model S's need and how that's contra to what Tesla advertises, and how unreliable Model S's are, and how the CPO program is costing Tesla 10k per car, blah, blah, blah.
     
  10. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Might I suggest going to/calling the service center, asking them to pull up the cars records, and then asking "was the car given annual service", "was there any unusual warranty repairs", "anything I should be concerned about", etc.

    People who bought used Teslas (pre-CPO program) were denied access to prior owner's records, under the guise of "prior owner privacy". I don't have a problem with that. But I would expect you could get verbal feedback on the car, just nothing in writing.
     
  11. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Seriously? For pretty much any brand of car, you can waltz into a dealership and see records for everything done to it at any of the franchise dealerships. Lexus goes even further and allows you to lookup records for any lexus you have a vin for as long as you say you own it but they don't actually verify it.
     
  12. skboston

    skboston Member

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    Every owner of used car should be granted access to previous service records of the vehicle, if the car has been repaired a lot, that's not the problem of the new owner, but rather Tesla, just because they've done a crappy job in building it, doesn't mean they should be hiding it from someone buying a CPO or used vehicle.
     
  13. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    My personal opinion is: I don't care one way or another. I've bought plenty of used vehicles without knowing what happened to them beforehand. *shrug* I was simply pointing out what would happen if the information became available. I well imagine that Tesla would currently like to avoid said charting and what would follow for OBVIOUS reasons.

    If having prior information is important to a buyer, and Tesla chooses not to provide it, then buy from someone else. Problem solved and no need to complain. :wink:
     
  14. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    This is an absolutely horrible policy. When you buy a car you have some right to know the service history of that car. If you are the rightful owner of the car you should be able to pull up the car's service history.

    It's obnoxious of them to refuse to give you the service records for the car you own. It staggeringly rude and condescending to say the least. With Mercedes they have something called a VMI (Vehicle Master Inquiry) that documents everything a Mercedes dealer has ever done to a car along with even any complaints or issues made by any of the previous owners.

    You can look up this information whether you are the original owner or not with Mercedes. I just can't believe Tesla is taking the absolutely horrible position of refusing to share the service records and history of the car the car with the person who actually owns it. What a boneheaded policy. It seems just about every manufacturer shares the history of the car with the owner other than Tesla. Why can't they just do the right thing. It is very disappointing to hear when Tesla has the opportunity to do something transparent and readily available for the actual benefit of someone who owns a Tesla they refuse to provide the courtesy of sharing the information they have.

    I don't buy what someone said about the information being used against Tesla. Tesla is no more special than Mercedes or any other car manufacturer that readily shares this information with owners. Assuming Tesla has done what needs to be done with regards to any defects and they have nothing to hide, what's the point in withholding the service records of the car that you actually own?

    I can't believe even GM (GM!!!) is more reasonable about this matter than Tesla.
     
  15. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    #15 Krugerrand, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    You don't have to buy it. We need only look at historical data to know the facts. There have been dozens of instances where the information was used against Tesla and where the information caused tremendous upheaval. One example off the top of my head was the ongoing VIN charting that occurred. Information is continually taken off this forum and used, it's one of the reasons why so many have chosen to have the signatures they have. It's also a fact that this forum often has information before the rest of the world at large about Tesla. It's also a fact that we have a number of members who are extremely detail oriented, like to collect data, and present it. Heck, just go and read the original CPO thread and we've got a full dissection of the cars and over on Tesla Motors own forum we've got, you guessed it, CHARTS! about average selling price of CPOs by region, by model, by mileage, by year etc...

    So, yeah, I can say with a significant measure of certainty that if Tesla gave owners the CPO service records it wouldn't take 24hrs for those to start appearing on this forum and a chart/spreadsheet to appear, followed within days by some SA bear article about how Tesla cars are pieces of crap and require tons of maintenance to be picked up by WSJ, Bloomberg and every other media outlet and quickly turned into several other offshoots about warranty expenses going through the roof, CPO cars costing Tesla thousands of dollars and on and on.

    In the end, I don't think it even matters what's in those service records since Tesla has provided a quite good warranty with them and has proven that they look after their customers. None of the work done now is going to be relevant to what work may need to be done to the car when the warranty runs out.

    That is entirely up for debate and will possibly be discussed for many, many decades to come.
     
  16. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    Except in this case we are not talking about some arcane situation of VIN numbers being used for various purposes. This has to do with someone who owns the actual car and would like to know its service history. Tesla is apparently refusing to provide this information and I think that is wrong is so many ways. The least of it being the fact that Mercedes and even GM (GM!!!) is doing the right thing in this case where their position is "Okay so you own the car and you want to know its service history. We have the service history for the car and we are glad to provide this information so you know the service history of your car."

    Meanwhile Tesla's position is "We don't care that Mercedes or GM share this information. You didn't buy the car from us so we are intentionally withholding information about your car from you. You are not happy about it? Too bad. What are you going to do? Call another Tesla dealer? Oh that's right there are none :)" This is how this policy comes across as and IMHO it is just wrong.

    I guess the moral of this boneheaded policy by Tesla is if you are buying a car from a private party who is the original owner, have them pull up the full service records for the car from Tesla and provide it to the person buying the car so they can make an informed decision. I can't stand car dealers buy this situation is one that car dealers routinely handle in a more reasonable, transparent, and dare I say more respectful manner. If you take a Mercedes to a dealer and ask for a VMI they will print it out and give it to you right away. No hassle, no drama, no policy nonsense, and no disrespect.
     
  17. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    It was not some arcane situation. People were reporting their VINs all along (and still do!). It wasn't until someone decided to chart it and it got discussed (and speculated) here ad nauseum did it gain an audience from the media, then from analysts, then before you could say, 'Ah, Crap!', Tesla missed the wildly speculated numbers, and the stock took a huge beating. But hey, I can list situations all day long if you need me to.

    Okay, you think it's wrong. I think it's mostly irrelevant and I've given valid reasons for it that have nothing to do with what other OEMs do. I've also given a valid reason for why Tesla may not want to release the information at this point in time. There's nothing that says that once Tesla is no longer vulnerable to the whims of the media, the oil industry, NADA etc... that it won't provide that information to owners. We simply do not know.

    Neither you nor I have any idea what Tesla's position is other than they are currently not giving out that information. If and when you actually speak to the person within Tesla who made this decision, or they come out publicly to tell us, is the time you'll know the why. Currently my used car buying reality, in combination with the warranty Tesla is giving on their CPO cars, and Tesla's history with customers/customer service, has me believing it is a non-issue all day long, every day, but I'm open to changing that opinion if and when Tesla decides to make the reasoning for their decision public.

    Your personal outrage on behalf of others is, I'm sure, quite comforting for them, but 'comes across' (since you're open to that concept) as at the very least being over done.
     
  18. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    @Krugerrand: My take on this policy is that it could affect any one of us. We may want to buy a second car for a family member from a private owner and the concept of withholding service records about the car you now own sounds absurd to me, considering how easy it is to pull the VMI of a Mercedes. It's usually on the wrong side of right to withhold service information about the car you own.

    I am more of a trust but verify type of person and I generally prefer to have as much as information as possible :) But you are right, let's see how this pans out. As I've said earlier if they actually institute a policy of withholding service records from the second owner of the car I'd consider that wrong and unreasonable. It seems you may reassess how you feel about this matter in such a scenario as well so perhaps we are not so far apart on this topic... My preference is for Tesla to treat all owners with the same respect and access to information whether they bought a car new, CPO or from a private party.
     
  19. Haggy

    Haggy Member

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    I saw a CPO that was given to me as a loaner. The documents were in the glove compartment including a Carfax report. Tesla's service records are less relevant than knowing if anything happened outside of Tesla, such as an accident. The paperwork clears up that part.

    Since the vehicles were under warranty there was no reason why the previous owner should have tolerated a problem that needed fixing. If a problem were apparent and didn't get fixed ahead of time, it would have been fixed when Tesla got the vehicle. If there were any problems that the previous owner wasn't aware of, service records wouldn't really help. Tesla fixed some things for me based on the system data even though I didn't explicitly make an appointment for them. I did have intermittent messages that indicated that it might have been a good idea, but they weren't ones that stopped the car from working. One was relatively minor and required recalibrating the front camera, before autopilot had been released, and the other fix was replacing the charger. Tesla scheduled the service for me when I was coming in anyway for an issue with a wiper blade. Had I never come in, they would have told me to come in. Had I never done that and sold the car to them, then it would have been fixed before they sold it because their computer told them to.

    You normally want the maintenance history for an ICE to see if the oil was changed when needed, whether other scheduled service was done on time, etc. With the MS, it makes little difference if it had a history of problems because if Tesla did need to fix anything, it meant swapping something out for something new that might have had engineering changes that left the car better than new. Also, it's a fair bet that the driver didn't fail to do normal maintenance because the car doesn't need much maintenance. The worst case scenario might be that the previous owner didn't get the tires rotated. But that would show up as uneven wear, as would any alignment problems.

    Given the overall warranty, it should make little or no difference what work was done on it in the past. Maintenance in the past would have made things better, not worse, and the lack of maintenance wouldn't indicate anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's not quite the same. In both cases, Tesla knew what was done in the past and took care of problems. In one case, they guarantee it. In the other case, there may or may not be remaining warranty but at this point there likely is. Given the satisfaction rate of the car, it's likely that in most of these cases the owners traded it in for a newer MS.

    For a private sale, I would insist on the car being taken in for the annual service. If anything were wrong, it would show up there, and if there were remaining warranty, it would be fixed for free or identified as damage not covered by the warranty. In the latter case, it should come off the price of the car.

    If I sold my car and somebody asked for maintenance records, I could hand over all of them. If I were less than forthcoming, and I'm not sure what there would be to gain by it, I could simply say that it never needed maintenance. Since nobody needs to make sure I had my spark plugs changed on time or my oil changed every 3000 miles, the lack of records isn't a negative.

    Five years from now, things might not be the same. But it would still come down to Tesla needing to change some fluids at most, and failure to change something like brake fluid doesn't cause future damage. What could a previous owner have failed to do that the lack of records would raise a flag about?
     
  20. skboston

    skboston Member

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    This is quite the mentality you have.... If we go into everything with such negativity and thoughts, we would still be living in caves...

    Instead of asking for a change to this really dumb policy, your suggestion is to go buy different car, speechless...

    Having all the service records available actually reflects on the decision whether or now a person will buy a car more than what you think. I've bought enough cars and other vehicles to know how much it matters when you see what the car or truck has gone through it's life before you, it's arguably vital information for the purchase and not being disclosed to prospect buyers will do more harm than good in the long run as people will start to wonder why is that information being kept in secret from them and walk away from the sale.

    If your stance is to protect your investment in Tesla, you actually should be pushing for quality increase, after all customer satisfaction is key to success and providing such innocent information for the most part.

    If they don't disclose it to conceal the amount of times each car goes for service, only speaks bad for them and quite frankly if someone starts pulling information from the forums can get quite accurate estimate of number of service visits each car goes on an average bases per year. I'm an owner for 8 months and the car has been in service for 4 times now and issues are still haunting the car.

    That being said, I won't buy another car since I believe in the technology and things will only improve with time, but restricting access for privacy issues of previous owner or for the reasons you stated is plain stupid.

    If you're unable to form your own opinion and have to rely on a SA article or from some of the Tesla bears out there, then this is your problem.

    There is enough information already available that maintenance is quite expensive on the car once it's out of warranty and same is valid for body damage.

    ---------------

    I just read the rest of your posts on the topic and it appears you're defending Tesla's position from the point of view to protect your shares in the company. You should disclose that beforehand, so we know where your stance comes from.

    Tesla is more or less a monopoly and is in desperate need of a slap to wake up and step up and be once again the leader in the industry by changing some of it's absurd policies only existing because there is no regulation for them. Servicing the cars is just as important as delivering them and reporting them every quarter.
    If they keep this going on with this mentality, Model 3 will be a huge success at first and once the reality settles in and those new cars starts going back to be serviced for one reason or another, it will hurt not only the stock price, but also all other owners as the judging by the current waiting times for service being 1-2 months with only 1 mass production car on the road and 2 more coming in soon, this time might increase to over 6 months with current service center expanding.
     

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