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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S

cmc1671

Member
Mar 1, 2020
12
24
El Dorado County, CA
I see from another thread that your car is a 60, not a 85. This might explain why they pulled the 85 out of the table: the core charge is not the same between a failed 85 and a failed 60 battery I guess. If Tesla offers the reman 85 to 60 owners at the same price, that is also odd actually.
Typo in my original post. Checked the original battery sticker under the car: 85kwh, 400V. They are replacing with a remanufactured version of the same battery, part# BATT,S3,BA,REMAN,MODELS(1088815-01-A). I asked for a 90kwh battery knowing that is an option - "not available".
 
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cmc1671

Member
Mar 1, 2020
12
24
El Dorado County, CA
Per the Tesla SC manager, the battery on an out of warranty HV battery replacement (regardless of new or remanufactured) is 4 years. There was a 4-way valve coolant leak found when they removed our battery which the SC said "could" have contributed to it's failure. However, no low coolant or other warnings popped up before the HV battery limitation warning.
 

krishna3812

Member
Jan 7, 2021
42
40
Newyork
Per the Tesla SC manager, the battery on an out of warranty HV battery replacement (regardless of new or remanufactured) is 4 years. There was a 4-way valve coolant leak found when they removed our battery which the SC said "could" have contributed to it's failure. However, no low coolant or other warnings popped up before the HV battery limitation warning.
Better to get that in writing since I saw sc folks talking B's if you go to different sc next time.
 

Rusty1

Member
Sep 13, 2017
141
139
Ooltewah, TN
Yeah definitely agree here in terms of running a hugh risk owning tesla after warranty. I think if there are enough backlash on those early owners hopefully tesla changes their stance and lower the battery cost. It seems to me they haven't even after all these years.

As for warranty on thr battery, it is a crap shoot really. Gurber can't warranty it because they don't know if another cell will fail afterwords. They are selling a service not something physical so warranty can't apply here. As for tesla, sure they can sell warranty, but given how they have data on this, you are right on why they refuse to do unlimited miles.

In any case the only solution is battery rental where the risk is no longer on the customer but with battery manufacture.
Would you pay $5K/yr for battery rental?
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,407
859
San Diego, California
Would you pay $5K/yr for battery rental?
Depends on what I am getting. If it is for my current pack, definitely not. It has slow charging and super low range. Yes I know it is more than the battery to get faster charging.

But if they upgraded my cables wiring in my car to support much higher charging rate, and upgrade me to a higher capacity battery to net me sustained 250KW charging, and a legit 600+ miles range pack throughout the rental period, and let me keep unlimited free charging at their stations then maybe... Obviously this pack doesn't exist yet, but that is what $5K/year is worth to me.
 
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Rusty1

Member
Sep 13, 2017
141
139
Ooltewah, TN
I think Tesla should make an effort to make a battery pack available that includes newer cells that work with older cars. (I.e newer Model S batteries in P85, etc.). That way we get improved chemistry and module design.
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,022
2,986
New Hampshire
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cduzz

Member
Jun 6, 2019
427
562
boston ma
Not sure what warrants a disagree here, when it's well established that the 85kWh pack is not an 85kWh pack (81.5kWh total, 77.5 kWh usable).

Ref - Tesla Motors: PLEASE stop lying about specifications (60 to 75 upgrade)

Are you the guy known at the hardware store as "You know, it's not actually 2 inches by 4 inches" and at the MacD are known as "Royale with cheese" because you constantly ask them if it is a quarter pound *after* it is cooked?

If you measure out your house, it'll probably have less living space than was advertised because walls have volume and maybe some of that space is taken up by HVAC.

Sure, you're "correct"; you're not getting an "85 kWh battery" but a something else. It turns out that sometimes, especially with advertising and product segmentation, a company won't be absolutely precise.

Oh well; my dog things she's chasing trucks away when she barks at them; you think you're making a point or convincing people. I doubt either will stop.
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,022
2,986
New Hampshire
White knight much? :rolleyes: Hardly pedantic. Sorry if I think maybe newbs should take the time to learn a thing or two before going into a fanboi frenzy of smacking the dislike on any post critical of Tesla, especially when they hit the dislike button more than they actually contribute to the discussion. :rolleyes:
 

cduzz

Member
Jun 6, 2019
427
562
boston ma
White knight much? :rolleyes: Hardly pedantic. Sorry if I think maybe newbs should take the time to learn a thing or two before going into a fanboi frenzy of smacking the dislike on any post critical of Tesla, especially when they hit the dislike button more than they actually contribute to the discussion. :rolleyes:

Um, arguably this is the definition of pedantic:

Pedantic is an insulting word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter.
--- Definition of PEDANTIC

There are lots of scenarios where some unitless number on a car model originally had an intention to represent some physical value (mustang 5.0) but the number evolves just to represent where that product sits in the hierarchy of that companies product offering. IE a "BMW 135" is smaller than "BMW 328" (BUT THE SMALL ONE HAS A BIGGER ENGINE!)

By all means, keep barking at the moon, avec Chèvre
 

Zuikkis

Member
Aug 19, 2020
266
317
Finland
Not sure what warrants a disagree here, when it's well established that the 85kWh pack is not an 85kWh pack (81.5kWh total, 77.5 kWh usable).

"Well established" is arguable. It's 81.5kWh if you believe Tesla's battery management system. But it's 85kWh if you look at Panasonic 18650 cell data and multiply with the amount of cells.. The difference comes from battery cell internal resistance and wiring etc. BMS doesn't see the actual battery capacity, it sees the capacity after the before mentioned losses.

Newer battery chemistries have lower internal resistance which means the two values are more closer, but still there is always a difference.

One gallon of gasoline contains 33.7kWh of energy. That should be enough for 100+ miles, but for some reason it isn't. At least Tesla is doing slightly better job in converting stored energy to mileage..
 

krishna3812

Member
Jan 7, 2021
42
40
Newyork
"Well established" is arguable. It's 81.5kWh if you believe Tesla's battery management system. But it's 85kWh if you look at Panasonic 18650 cell data and multiply with the amount of cells.. The difference comes from battery cell internal resistance and wiring etc. BMS doesn't see the actual battery capacity, it sees the capacity after the before mentioned losses.

Newer battery chemistries have lower internal resistance which means the two values are more closer, but still there is always a difference.

One gallon of gasoline contains 33.7kWh of energy. That should be enough for 100+ miles, but for some reason it isn't. At least Tesla is doing slightly better job in converting stored energy to mileage..
Agree with this. Tesla is paying for 85kwh I guess even though bms says ~81kwh. They did good job with model 3/y with just not putting numbers out and naming them SR,MR,LR etc

I guess at end of day battery capacity number shouldn't matter for customer. If customer likes range then pay the asking price and be done with it.
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,022
2,986
New Hampshire
There are lots of scenarios where some unitless number on a car model originally had an intention to represent some physical value (mustang 5.0) but the number evolves just to represent where that product sits in the hierarchy of that companies product offering. IE a "BMW 135" is smaller than "BMW 328" (BUT THE SMALL ONE HAS A BIGGER ENGINE!)
Except that "85" is not a "unitless number on a car model originally had an intention to represent some physical value" as BMW model numbers have evolved into - A P85D's specs and window sticker clearly state the car is equipped with an 85 kWh battery and 691 HP, both of which are exaggerated.
 

Rusty1

Member
Sep 13, 2017
141
139
Ooltewah, TN
Some quick calculations for comparison:

New LR Model S $90K, own 8 years, sell for $30K = $7.5K/YR

4 year old Model S for $60K, own 4 years, sell for $30K = $7.5K/YR

8 year old Model S for $30K, replace battery for $20K, own 4 years, sell for $18K = $8K/YR

There are assumptions of everything else being equal above, but you have to be very attached to your car to spend more to keep it versus buying a new one.
 

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