And the port and wiring in the car.The maximum possible charge rate in KW is not dependent on having unlimited supercharging or paying for each charge.
It only depends on the type of battery and the condition of the battery,
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And the port and wiring in the car.The maximum possible charge rate in KW is not dependent on having unlimited supercharging or paying for each charge.
It only depends on the type of battery and the condition of the battery,
It would make for an interesting pack, for sure. LFP cells have a lower voltage than NCA, so a 16 module pack in the same 96p configuration as the legacy S/X pack would be ~350v instead of ~400v, but that wouldn't seem to be an issue.I may be in the minority, but I am really hoping that tesla will offer a pack with LFP cells as a replacement pack for legacy models coming off warranty.
Hear me out....
My car, new, had maybe a range of 288 miles, now it's got a range of 272, and by the time the warranty's done probably 260 miles (thanks, 90 pack...)
Presumably a replacement LFP pack would be substantially cheaper than a replacement new pack with the more expensive chemistry. I'd be able to charge it to 100% rather than mostly charging it to 80% as I do now.
I'd *like* to have a pack that gets the car almost 300 miles of range; am I willing to pay $15,000 extra for that? Probably not when what I really care about is being able to drive 120 miles without charging (when driving to a family house); driving 200 miles before charging, and being able to charge quickly at superchargers.
(I've taken the car on several road trips; fast charging is extremely important, much more important than absolute range, as long as I'm driving within the supercharger network)
After having the car for several years, I've come to realize the added 60-80 miles of range just aren't worth that much to me, relative to the value of fast DC charging.
I would find a right to repair place like the Electrified Garage on YouTube to fix your battery. They are able to open up the pack and find the cell that’s not working.I got my Model S VIN 1751 off the line back in 2012 and have had it ever since. On Feb 14th during the day, I pulled it out of the garage with 114 miles showing on the battery. I woke up in the morning with some battery low errors. When I got into the car, it told me that the car wouldn't drive because it needed service, the 12V battery was low voltage and the HV battery was at 0 miles. After calling Tesla Roadside Assistance, they connected to the car and said that it had to be towed to a service center. I was able to get it towed to the closes Tesla service center and now they the tell me my warranty for the drivetrain expired on 1/9/21 (one month earlier) and the HV battery has to be replace for $22k. If my battery was 8 years old, I would be ok with that. I assumed a level of risk having a car for this long and I expected that the battery would go bad at some point. It's just a shame that it died a month after the warranty expired. The kicker for me is that I had a faulty backflow prevention valve in my HV battery 1.5 years ago and had the battery replaced under warranty. Now service is telling me that if I buy a new battery for $22k I get a 4 year/50k mile warranty on the new battery, but the battery they replaced 1.5 years ago only had a one year warranty for parts. I feel I had to somewhat document this to people as I am one of the first roughly 2k-2.5k cars that are out of warranty at this point and I seem to be one of the first to at least document out of warranty replacement options on this site (at least as my search abilities go). So be careful when that warranty expires. You are on your own. Tesla isn't budging on helping my 1.5 year old bad battery and now essentially bricked car. From what I can tell, the car is worth somewhere between $18k-25k working. I'm not sure yet if I'm going forward with the battery replacement to sell it or not.
And then at 21:20, their gas car also stops working (unable to start). But that doesn’t make the thumbnail. I guess the difference is that they luckily didn’t have the gas car issue occur on the road.What I have found fascinating watching the latest episodes of car trek featuring the fixed model s of hoovies garage that the car did have serious issues driving to the lower state of charge. The car stopped with around 35 miles of charge.
At around 17 minutes in the video
That is what I want to point out here. So a brick replacement was done. And as @wk057 already mentioned here it will not fix it. So this debunks in my opinion the brick change. For me a full pack seems the only way to go if you want longevity.And then at 21:20, their gas car also stops working (unable to start). But that doesn’t make the thumbnail. I guess the difference is that they luckily didn’t have the gas car issue occur on the road.
Also the Tesla battery was a refurb by a 3rd party. Did they do it right? Don’t know.
But here's the question: When you do get a "full pack", how does Tesla refub it for longevity? (and according to Gruber he has the skills as well)That is what I want to point out here. So a brick replacement was done. And as @wk057 already mentioned here it will not fix it. So this debunks in my opinion the brick change. For me a full pack seems the only way to go if you want longevity.
I imagine a great many of the packs “remanufactured” by Tesla have nothing to do with module replacements. Rather it’s stuff like battery management boards, other onboard electronics, etc.But here's the question: When you do get a "full pack", how does Tesla refub it for longevity? (and according to Gruber he has the skills as well)
"It's simple: we figured out how to do it, he hasn't," said Gruber. "We have been putting Teslas back on the road, Roadsters, and now Model S's, for years with no issues. How does he think Tesla created [remanufactured] battery packs in Lathrop, California? We carefully match CAC values on modules to eliminate the incompatibility issue Jason talks about."
Replacing Tesla Model S Battery Modules Isn't A Viable Long-Term Solution
My understanding is that matching the CAC values takes a pretty large sample of modules. Has anyone done the math to see how many it would take?(Quoting Gruber) “…We carefully match CAC values on modules to eliminate the incompatibility issue Jason talks about."
According to Jason a vast selection, which I assume only Tesla has. And if for example there are 1000 measured modules sitting on a bench, if none measure appropriately and a refurb pack cannot be assembled at that moment in time, a new pack is the only option for the customer?My understanding is that matching the CAC values takes a pretty large sample of modules. Has anyone done the math to see how many it would take?
I don’t think Gruber has figured anything out that Jason hasn’t.
Hmm, I wonder if the BM board would accept that. One would only loose 16/7104 or 0.2 % capacity. I'd be okay with that to save ~$12,000It probably wouldn’t be worth the trouble but I am curious if you could “pop” some cells in order to make the pack balance.
That isn't the way it works. The old 85kWh packs are 96s74p. So if you lose a single cell in any module you actually lose 1/74 or ~1.4%. At that point to "balance" the pack you would have to remove 1 cell from each of the other 95 bricks. (Which wouldn't lower the capacity any further.)Hmm, I wonder if the BM board would accept that. One would only loose 16/7104 or 0.2 % capacity. I'd be okay with that to save ~$12,000
It probably wouldn’t be worth the trouble but I am curious if you could “pop” some cells in order to make the pack balance. Something like shooting two different beams that would pass through the metal and heat up a cell where they intersect.
May be that's what Gruber is doing, something like disabling cell(s) out of good modules to equalize their capacity with the bad module?
All of this sounds like an awful idea for Tesla. They're going to spend more doing extra warranty swaps than they will just rebuilding the packs properly. Someone will have done the math and realized that it's better all around to pull the truly marginal bricks out of the stream. It might make sense when these cars get much closer to end of life, for the sort of backyard rebuilders that I expect to see pop up saying they can rebuild packs just because they can get them to clear the warnings long enough to work OK for a year or two, much like people who keep cars running on junkyard parts now.Or maybe Tesla could just reprogram the BMS computer to allow for larger tolerances between modules? I suppose if anything the tolerances have been tightened after a few fires.
It still doesn't make sense to me how one little $1 cell can cause so much disruption. Would it not be easier to dismantle the module and match the cell, instead of a whole module? Or even trick the module with some LCR network in its place? Apparently not. There are definitely people on this planet with these skillls, but I am sure they are all employed in occupations which are more lucrative.
Correct. Their note claiming otherwise was quite disingenuous and overall just marketing nonsense talk.I don’t think Gruber has figured anything out that Jason hasn’t.
May be that's what Gruber is doing, something like disabling cell(s) out of good modules to equalize their capacity with the bad module?
Well, pay attention to the contract you sign with whoever you're doing business with.