Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S

[MP3Mike]

So, in just a matter of days, it appears the price of a replacement battery has dropped by half from $22,000 to $11,000. How could this be? Could it be that

Technically it is $14.5k now but they were given a $3k goodwill discount.

 

[AustinP]

I’d sure like to indeed see the quotes. Wether 22k or 11k, and get precision on what is in it: a reman or the “new” 85/90.

 

[aerodyne]

(Charger is under the seat in the S.) You mean HV interface to the battery? Your's an S?

Both...charger under the rear seat was pulled, then they pulled the HV pack from the car and opened the pack at the rear to replace the contactors.

This was for an MS.

 

[David.85D]

It would be nice to have all the numbers. But what we (I) have is a little more than anecdotes. So we are a group of 9 original P85D 03/2015 owners, and at this point 4 of us have had the battery changed under warranty. And I personally (not hear say or anecdotes) know of several other 85 owners who had their battery changed under warranty.

You can add me to the group. Had the battery in my 12/2014 P85D replaced at around 5 years / 50k miles.

 

[j0esilly]

So, in just a matter of days, it appears the price of a replacement battery has dropped by half from $22,000 to $11,000. How could this be? Could it be that @badpenny, simply was told by someone as a SC "a replacement battery is about $22,000" and they didn't actually go look it up in the catalog or call the factory and find anything out. Could it be the SC person simply pulled it out of his okole? Certainly not @badpenny's fault or doing. No reflection on him, he reported what he was told.

Then the fear and people ready to criticize, climbed on the downhill bound snowball and complained about the price? Doesn't the $11,000 cost seem more inline with progress these days versus what it probably was 9 years ago when Tesla started making battery packs.

This is why I said, I was not going to comment. Yet I did. I could not find the post, again, but someone after #1 did say, they wanted to see a hard copy quote from a SC not just a guess. Where's that actual hard copy of the quote?

So I did ask the SC Rep that I spoke with if I wanted to pay for a new pack instead of a "remaned" pack what the cost would be and he told me $20-30k, maybe the price they gave @badpenny was for a brand new pack

 

[howardc64]

2013 MS85 62k miles. 8 year battery + drive train warranty will expire in 2 months. Researching high cost items (drive train = $10k, battery = $22k) is worrisome. This is beyond the other lower cost items such as MCU, suspension breakage, and door handles.

I've done DIY on all my cars in the last 20 years with above average skills able to swap a transmission, replace a valve body etc. But Tesla have generally disabled abundance of independents and DIYers by not releasing repair documentation, diagnostic tools and didn't sell parts for quite awhile until not too long ago. Been looking at potential failure items in the motor (bearings, I have a whiny one that Tesla won't fix under warranty with their latest policy) and battery (cells), lacking service info pretty much disabled broader availability of cheaper independent options. Tesla is relying on wholesale unit replacements at really high cost to the customer.

On battery failure statistics, data from Gruber motors suggest it may be more widely spread as these cars age. He quotes 2 cars/week out of US population of 2600 2012-13 MS off 8 year battery warranty (link below). Thats 100 failures/year for the first year of ~2600 US delivery or 4%. And thats just the customers that goes there (ship car to AZ and back). Failures stats repaired by Tesla (both under and out of warranty) are only visible to Tesla. Anyhow, failure rates at least 10% or higher seems pretty likely even before cumulative effects of multiple years.

As Teslas Age | Gruber Motors - YouTube

 

[rns-e]

2013 MS85 62k miles. 8 year battery + drive train warranty will expire in 2 months. Researching high cost items (drive train = $10k, battery = $22k) is worrisome. This is beyond the other lower cost items such as MCU, suspension breakage, and door handles.

I've done DIY on all my cars in the last 20 years with above average skills able to swap a transmission, replace a valve body etc. But Tesla have generally disabled abundance of independents and DIYers by not releasing repair documentation, diagnostic tools and didn't sell parts for quite awhile until not too long ago.

I think you will find this interesting

Fix Your Tesla - Service manuals and online forum support from other Tesla owners.

 

[Matias]

So, in just a matter of days, it appears the price of a replacement battery has dropped by half from $22,000 to $11,000. How could this be? Could it be that @badpenny, simply was told by someone as a SC "a replacement battery is about $22,000" and they didn't actually go look it up in the catalog or call the factory and find anything out. Could it be the SC person simply pulled it out of his okole? Certainly not @badpenny's fault or doing. No reflection on him, he reported what he was told.

Then the fear and people ready to criticize, climbed on the downhill bound snowball and complained about the price? Doesn't the $11,000 cost seem more inline with progress these days versus what it probably was 9 years ago when Tesla started making battery packs.

This is why I said, I was not going to comment. Yet I did. I could not find the post, again, but someone after #1 did say, they wanted to see a hard copy quote from a SC not just a guess. Where's that actual hard copy of the quote?

We have not heard from @badpenny, so we don’t know if Tesla has dropped his/her price.

 

[Akikiki]

We have not heard from @badpenny, so we don’t know if Tesla has dropped his/her price.

That's an accurate statement. But we hear from someone else that frankly is right now, just as reliable source as badpenny until he comes back and gives us a hard copy quote. We don't know of any of the conversation that badpenny had with the SC rep. For all we know, what he said to the SC rep might not have been what the SC rep heard. I know that sounds weird. But the SC rep may have flippantly answered "what's a new battery cost" with "a brand new battery for your car cost $22,000" Badpenny might not have added the operative word "refurbished" and got "brand new". We don't even know if a never-before-used brand new battery is possible.

 

[howardc64]

I think you will find this interesting

Fix Your Tesla - Service manuals and online forum support from other Tesla owners.

Very cool, glad to see community is helping itself. Will join and participate if keeping my MS.

Whats the latest on cost effective diag tools for DIYer? Anything better than scan my tesla? Toolbox subscription looks costly for anything beyond short use.

 

[Altes]

What would your preferred warranty be? The car is still covered under the original powertrain warranty it just so happened it also was out. Do you think the replacement battery should come with a new 8 year warranty?

WHen we are doing the beta testing yes i would expect just a little more courtesy

 

[howardc64]

The fundamentals of this battery architecture doesn't look good for longevity.

- 1 failure out of 7k+ cells knocks out the pack. Seem dicey after 8yr battery warranty
- cell is buried deep inside the pack module. Pack removal from car require a couple of lifts, not easily DIY at home. Pack top lid removal is easily destructive with 1x use sealant assembly. Not to mention precaution against the 400V that can kill you.
- battery pack is a high cost item. If pack repair is not performed on site, then customer has to pay for complete battery module cost. Tesla (or anyone) unlikely to give high credit for the core (don't know whats wrong with it until opening up later) to reduce replacement cost.

Only independents can take this on like Gruber Motors in AZ and perform repair onsite for $5k. But very few shops so far which typically add car shipping costs.

Seems likely most Tesla's car's values will fall off a cliff nearing end of battery warranty with these thousands of cells architecture (architecture does provide for better thermal control over big cells). Building in redundancy and adaptively disable small group containing bad cell would be a solution but perhaps cost prohibitive. Maybe larger battery cells like other EVs might do better in this regard.

 

[SmartElectric]

WHen we are doing the beta testing yes i would expect just a little more courtesy

Huh. I didn't buy my 2013 Model S to beta test it, but obviously the 1400000 km on our odometer should be nulled out and Tesla should provide owners of these early cars a special status, perhaps give us free supercharging for life (oops too late), or replacement of our media storage units (eMMC, oops, too late Tesla is also doing that), how about 8 years after the fact offering an upgrade for our media units to brand new technology (oops, Tesla also offering MCU2 upgrades) ... I mean, we've BETA TESTED 140000 km and we DESERVE something for that, not just the fact we had a 400+ km range car for 8 years that used no gas and accelerated faster than almost any car of it's age, I mean, we need MORE than that AM I RIGHT?!!?\

LOL. Beta testing. Try driving my Smart ED, that is laughably bad, and there is no program to upgrade the crap tech Daimler put in it to newer spec, but what the heck, it's Tesla, and it's owners deserve more than just getting a car for the money they paid.

 

[aerodyne]

The fundamentals of this battery architecture doesn't look good for longevity.

- 1 failure out of 7k+ cells knocks out the pack. Seem dicey after 8yr battery warranty
- cell is buried deep inside the pack module. Pack removal from car require a couple of lifts, not easily DIY at home. Pack top lid removal is easily destructive with 1x use sealant assembly
- battery pack is a high cost item. If pack repair is not performed on site, then customer has to pay for complete battery module cost. Tesla (or anyone) unlikely to give high credit for the core (don't know whats wrong with it until opening up later) to reduce replacement cost.

Only independents can take this on like Gruber Motors in AZ and perform repair onsite for $5k. But very few shops so far which typically add car shipping costs.

Seems likely most Tesla's car's values will fall off a cliff nearing end of battery warranty with this architecture. Building in redundancy and adaptively disable small group containing bad cell would be a solution but perhaps cost prohibitive. Maybe larger battery cells like other EVs might do better in this regard.

Good points, but offsetting this is the possibility of many failures resulting in a surplus of serviceable modules, that can be used for repair or the DIY powerwall market.

 

[SmartElectric]

The fundamentals of this battery architecture doesn't look good for longevity.

- 1 failure out of 7k+ cells knocks out the pack. Seem dicey after 8yr battery warranty...not easily DIY at home...Only independents can take this on like Gruber Motors in AZ and perform repair onsite for $5k

Seems likely most Tesla's car's values will fall off a cliff nearing end of battery warrant...

Hmm, maybe Tesla designed the car with the best tech of it's age, owners bought the car KNOWING it had thousands of cells, in an age (8 years ago) when the typical laptop battery lasted 1.5 years.

BUT NOW it's critically important to highlight that Tesla owners will lose value on their 8 year old cars, I mean, most 8 year old cars don't lose value or do they?

I owned a sports car that blew an engine in year 6, the repair was $10K and it never drove as well again, whereas Gruber returns a Tesla to nearly previous levels of performance with a $5K battery repair (surgically disconnecting offending cells for example).

Are you seriously complaining that the value of an 8 year old car is SHOCKER, worth less? Realize, that became true in 2018 as alternatives like a brand new Tesla Model 3 with superior tech and range appeared on the market for half the price S owners paid new.

Owners can part out a Model S for big $ on the used market as the battery modules, motors and other components are still better than anything else available on the used market. Try parting out an old S class MB and see what you get in comparison at it's end of life...

 

[aerodyne]

That's an accurate statement. But we hear from someone else that frankly is right now, just as reliable source as badpenny until he comes back and gives us a hard copy quote. We don't know of any of the conversation that badpenny had with the SC rep. For all we know, what he said to the SC rep might not have been what the SC rep heard. I know that sounds weird. But the SC rep may have flippantly answered "what's a new battery cost" with "a brand new battery for your car cost $22,000" Badpenny might not have added the operative word "refurbished" and got "brand new". We don't even know if a never-before-used brand new battery is possible.

Not to give Tesla a pass, but I think they will have to come up with a better way, and reduced cost method, for dealing with the large number of failures in warranty and the resulting E waste problem that comes with that.

(Calling JB Struabel in northern NV!)

One option is having a supply of tested and serviceable modules and field ready cover patch kits for every module position.

I still support 3 party repair, but like the idea of Tesla taking a lead role in sustainably resolving the problem they created.

 

[Altes]

Huh. I didn't buy my 2013 Model S to beta test it, but obviously the 1400000 km on our odometer should be nulled out and Tesla should provide owners of these early cars a special status, perhaps give us free supercharging for life (oops too late), or replacement of our media storage units (eMMC, oops, too late Tesla is also doing that), how about 8 years after the fact offering an upgrade for our media units to brand new technology (oops, Tesla also offering MCU2 upgrades) ... I mean, we've BETA TESTED 140000 km and we DESERVE something for that, not just the fact we had a 400+ km range car for 8 years that used no gas and accelerated faster than almost any car of it's age, I mean, we need MORE than that AM I RIGHT?!!?\

LOL. Beta testing. Try driving my Smart ED, that is laughably bad, and there is no program to upgrade the crap tech Daimler put in it to newer spec, but what the heck, it's Tesla, and it's owners deserve more than just getting a car for the money they paid.

No, You didn't buy your 2013 Model S to beta test it, but you did Telsa's beta testing whether you knew it or not, and on top of that you provided massive amounts of "self driving" data to Tesla at the cost of your EMMC failing. The 8 year drivetrain warranty was to get people to trust that it would be reliable, nothing less (or more) and many of the noisy drivetrains and failures were blamed on drivers or "couldnt confirm drivers complaint", "within spec" etc. Oooo you have 1.4 million kilometers (really?) on your "classic" the only reason Tesla is replacing MCU's is that the NHTSA FORCED them to. They have already come out with statements saying that it is a "wear item" to prevent future claims and regulation. I have 15 year old laptops that are working just fine and if memory fails on any computer I own I simply snap in a new RAM module, not have to spend $2000 on a new laptop. Oh, And please dont compare a disposable $20K smart car to an $80K supposed luxury vehicle

 

[Akikiki]

Not to give Tesla a pass, but I think they will have to come up with a better way, and reduced cost method, for dealing with the large number of failures in warranty and the resulting E waste problem that comes with that.

(Calling JB Struabel in northern NV!)

One option is having a supply of tested and serviceable modules and field ready cover patch kits for every module position.

I still support 3 party repair, but like the idea of Tesla taking a lead role in sustainably resolving the problem they created.

Is it fair to assume that Tesla is not already "on top of this"? Just because we don't know. Just because they don't make a point of printing details and we rely on someone to repeat what they have heard or been told by a SC, does not mean Tesla is not working to bring down replacement pack prices. And we have heard since Day 1 (or 2) so to speak, that they recycle old packs and use the material out of them.

 

[aerodyne]

Is it fair to assume that Tesla is not already "on top of this"? Just because we don't know. Just because they don't make a point of printing details and we rely on someone to repeat what they have heard or been told by a SC, does not mean Tesla is not working to bring down replacement pack prices. And we have heard since Day 1 (or 2) so to speak, that they recycle old packs and use the material out of them.

Well, they weren't exactly on top on the eMMC chip situation IMO.

I hope you are right on the packs, as a bit more work is involved than even an MCU swap. I am sure pack prices will come down eventually.

I am expecting a good outcome, but prepared for the worst, the worst being I will cancel my future car orders and turn the MS pack into a powerwall, and have Rich put an LS1 into my roller.

I am old enough to be distrustful of companies once they are taken over by wall street. Recall well the snowmobile (DMC) and for more current events, look no further than today's story on Lordstown Motors scam.

I am a fan of Tesla, of 2012-2018. Current state of fandom is dependent on performance. An effort equal to the MY rollout would get my cudos.

The Refresh effort is concerning, but too early to pass judgement.

 

[TwistedGray]

My P85 has a new battery as of a few months ago (out of warranty), $20k invoice...happy to share invoice if you all are interested.

Previous owner footed the bill.