It doesn't have the wiring. Tesla won't modify the wiring on older cars to add it.
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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S
- Thread starter badpenny
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- bad battery hv battery
That's cool. Whatever the difference is currently, it's not enough to register as increased drain vs MCU1. I will say that I'm still confused about my March 2015 car. A month ago, I disconnected the battery to fully charge it up and then do a CCA test on it which failed with 180 CCAs. I figured I'd get the replace 12v battery message soon enough so I ordered a new battery. When I disconnected the battery to test it, I did not pull the HV disconnect and the systems remained powered on the entire time which include the 5 hours I had the 12v battery disconnected and charging with an external charger. The MCU and car systems were on the entire time. 14 volts was present at the battery cable terminals.
When the new battery came, I replaced it again, but this time I did a power off and waited 10 minutes before disconnecting the 12v battery. I then disconnected the battery but then for kicks, decided to see if the car was still on, so I pressed the driver door handle and it popped out. I opened the door and the displays came on. So everything was still powered on. I did another shutdown and proceeded to swap the batteries.
Does this mean my contactors are again on all the time? Perhaps this is part of a new failure mode where when the 12v battery capacity gets low enough, the contactors stay on and the dc-dc inverter is kept on all the time? I supposed I could test that by disconnecting the new battery to see if everything shuts off.
Basically no unless they also retrofit the wiring from the battery to the MCU2.
So all nose-cone cars regardless of build date will have higher sleep draw from MCU2 because there's no standby power from the HV battery? Or is there some other cutoff where some but not all later nose-cone cars have the wire harness?
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Folks, reaching out here for advice or confirmation of best strategy... Lots of battery pack threads, I am picking this one.
A couple years back I convinced my parents to buy a Tesla. They chose a used 2013 P85+ with about 65K miles at the time. Fast forward to November 23rd of 2021 and the car died on the side of the road. My mom was driving and when it died, she got out of the car, looked around, didn't see anything wrong, got back in and the car started and she drove it home. Long story short the battery was acting up. I took it for a test drive, did the best I could to diagnose what was wrong. What happens is when you push the car, like flooring it, the car starts to quickly loose power. It will briefly achieve 280kw or so then quickly drop. If you keep pushing it you get less and less power output until the car gives up and dies. I drove it a bit and after my test drive I used scan my tesla to try to spot any defective behavior from the battery, such as a brick with low voltage. Everything looked reasonably balanced, less that 20mV of imbalance with the entire pack. Seems OK to me. The car charges just fine, doesn't show any weird charge level limiting or anything. Anyway, we took the car into Tesla. They said the pack is faulty and must be replaced. I asked them to make sure it wasn't something simple like a pack fuse, contactor or something. My dad and I really tried to push Tesla to offer a cheaper repair option. No such luck with Tesla. Only way they fix it is with a refurb pack or a new pack. Oh and by the way it's no longer under warranty, which expired about a month prior.
I understand the nature of these cars but my mother was beside herself with anger and frustration at the situation. She wants to do what the youtuber did and blow up the whole car. Sigh.
Anyway, it's been sitting at the Tesla service center for almost two months now waiting for a battery. Everything I am reading about the refurbished batteries, really seems like it is at best a "lottery" with who knows what pack you end up with. Frankly, as long as it's not another old style 400Volt 85Kwh pack like the one that was in it (severely crippled supercharging) I would be OK with it. The estimate approved from Tesla shows a part number for a 90kwh pack, which is fine if that's what they actually give me. However, I am seeing that at least some folks are receiving old 85packs still (not the new 350V one). Which scares me, as these packs appear to be garbage in every way. Poor reliability, poor charging, and etc..
Does anyone have any better insight into how Tesla refurbishes packs? Is this just a random thing with what pack you end up with?
Should I take the car back and go to a 3rd party shop like WK57 to try another way to fix this car?
As it happens, the company I work for actually has a complete low mileage 85kwh pack that was salvaged from a wrecked car. We used it briefly for something here that I won't get into, but is now just sitting around and is available (not for free). I originally was thinking about doing that, however I really don't want the old 85 packs due to what I have learned over the last couple of years about them.
But, I am really trying to avoid getting more grief about this pack problem with this car, and I know the 'rents will be further incensed if Tesla does put an old 85 pack in it when their approved estimated stated it was going to be a 90kwh pack (which would at least have the newer chemistry cells).
Anyone in the know have any additional advice?
A couple years back I convinced my parents to buy a Tesla. They chose a used 2013 P85+ with about 65K miles at the time. Fast forward to November 23rd of 2021 and the car died on the side of the road. My mom was driving and when it died, she got out of the car, looked around, didn't see anything wrong, got back in and the car started and she drove it home. Long story short the battery was acting up. I took it for a test drive, did the best I could to diagnose what was wrong. What happens is when you push the car, like flooring it, the car starts to quickly loose power. It will briefly achieve 280kw or so then quickly drop. If you keep pushing it you get less and less power output until the car gives up and dies. I drove it a bit and after my test drive I used scan my tesla to try to spot any defective behavior from the battery, such as a brick with low voltage. Everything looked reasonably balanced, less that 20mV of imbalance with the entire pack. Seems OK to me. The car charges just fine, doesn't show any weird charge level limiting or anything. Anyway, we took the car into Tesla. They said the pack is faulty and must be replaced. I asked them to make sure it wasn't something simple like a pack fuse, contactor or something. My dad and I really tried to push Tesla to offer a cheaper repair option. No such luck with Tesla. Only way they fix it is with a refurb pack or a new pack. Oh and by the way it's no longer under warranty, which expired about a month prior.
I understand the nature of these cars but my mother was beside herself with anger and frustration at the situation. She wants to do what the youtuber did and blow up the whole car. Sigh.
Anyway, it's been sitting at the Tesla service center for almost two months now waiting for a battery. Everything I am reading about the refurbished batteries, really seems like it is at best a "lottery" with who knows what pack you end up with. Frankly, as long as it's not another old style 400Volt 85Kwh pack like the one that was in it (severely crippled supercharging) I would be OK with it. The estimate approved from Tesla shows a part number for a 90kwh pack, which is fine if that's what they actually give me. However, I am seeing that at least some folks are receiving old 85packs still (not the new 350V one). Which scares me, as these packs appear to be garbage in every way. Poor reliability, poor charging, and etc..
Does anyone have any better insight into how Tesla refurbishes packs? Is this just a random thing with what pack you end up with?
Should I take the car back and go to a 3rd party shop like WK57 to try another way to fix this car?
As it happens, the company I work for actually has a complete low mileage 85kwh pack that was salvaged from a wrecked car. We used it briefly for something here that I won't get into, but is now just sitting around and is available (not for free). I originally was thinking about doing that, however I really don't want the old 85 packs due to what I have learned over the last couple of years about them.
But, I am really trying to avoid getting more grief about this pack problem with this car, and I know the 'rents will be further incensed if Tesla does put an old 85 pack in it when their approved estimated stated it was going to be a 90kwh pack (which would at least have the newer chemistry cells).
Anyone in the know have any additional advice?
Does your car has any warranty repairs in past? Since failure is just a month after warranty try to calculate if car is at Tesla service for warranty repair work. If it's more than a month your warranty should expand as well since technically Tesla has the car.
Coming to refurbished packs I think (from service center folks) cells would be new and only parts used in pack would be used. I got reman 90kwh pack for 2014 S 85 and it's lot better than old 85.
How much did Tesla quoted you for reman 90 pack?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This would seem to be assuredly false given the observed wide variability in capacity/degradation across remanufactured packs.
Aren't the 350V packs all the smaller capacity ones? The 400V packs would be the 85, 90, 100 packs. 350V packs are 60, 70, 75.
Anyway if they give you a quote with a certain part number and then install a different part number, you should be protected by your state repair laws.
As far as I remember, only v1 90 batteries are as bad or about, as the 85: degradation and slow SuC.
So if you can get certainty the one you are getting is v2 or above, it’ll mean probably a little more range, and much better suc speed.
Can you share more details (price, reference)?
Yeah, the DCDC can support the system with no 12V battery installed indefinitely (as long as the HV battery has juice), provided you don't attempt some ridiculous 12V high-current load with no ramp up, since the DCDC's output capacitors can only handle so much surge. I've personally driven a vehicle with no 12V battery installed all the way to Tesla (~60 miles from me) once. When the gateway detects no 12V battery (no current in or out of the 12V current shunt) when it otherwise expects charging or discharging, then it will almost never disengage the contactors while the 12V is missing (the timeout is super high), leaving the HV system energized, DCDC on, contactors closed, etc.
The contactors alone pull ~15-30W when closed, depending on type and age. Just having the contactors closed alone is 1-3 miles of vampire loss per day, plus the DCDC isn't 100% efficient or anything. (This is where the Model 3 style power switches have an efficiency advantage, since they can latch in place and use virtually no power once there.) And that's not counting any MCU or other module power draws. For example, sentry mode on newer models uses a ton of power... I've seen around 30 miles of vampire drain in a day on an otherwise idle Model 3 before (suggesting an average 280W load...), which is crazy to me. I think some of that was the cabin HVAC blower in no-AC overheat mode, however.
Anyway, I've got a decent amount of data from both MCU1 and upgraded-to-MCU2 vehicles, and the MCU2 vehicles use between 1.4 and 2.9x the idle power of their MCU1 counterparts (discarding a couple of outliers where power usage was 10x+ higher for some reason, probably related to some other issue), depending on exact usage. In no case have I seen MCU2 usage be even with or less than MCU1, and MCU2-retrofit vehicles generally have their contactors closed for the majority of the day (when idle as high as 100%, as low as about 40%) vs MCU1 vehicles (when idle as high as ~70% and as low as 0%), depending on 12V battery health.
I know this is getting fairly OT for the thread, but this is what makes Sentry feel bonkers to me. It really offers very little practical advantage that I see, effectively becoming very expensive insurance. Some people love it though, and I'll take that it means I get the benefit of people thinking my car might have Sentry going.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Tesla now makes a 350v 85/90 pack (it’s been listed as both capacities, but the pack seems to be the same). Speculated to be a 14 module pack with 100kwh-style modules.
New 85kWH battery for my 2013 P85+
Got my original battery pack revision "B" (unsure of the part#) replaced over the weekend and just picked up my car. To my surprise, I now have a new battery showing a ~92% charge to be 265mi and according to the app, 100% is 288mi!!! I initially thought I got a 90kWH pack as a replacement...
teslamotorsclub.com
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
This car has a lot of prior warranty repairs, mostly from the prior owner. Although no HV battery specific repairs that I am aware of. I don't have all the repair paperwork from the prior owner, but the Tesla service adviser did go through it's history with me on his computer screen. Staggering amount of repairs really, compared to my S60. My mom (who was the primary driver) said that the car did seem to start getting weak earlier in the summer, but she never bothered to say anything to me until it up and died. Had she mentioned something, it was still under warranty at that time, probably would have gotten it fixed under warranty. But it wasn't throwing error messages, so hard to prove to Tesla this happened while under warranty.
Tesla is quoting $12,700 plus bolts, labor and taxes for the reman battery. They show it as part number 11029812-01-A.
It would be great if they used new cells. I would have no concerns then. My understanding is they are not, but I don't really know.
I think if there were replacement packs turning out to be awful we would see a ton of threads about it here, and on Reddit, and probably on the usual blogs. The fact that we are not - and that they put a warranty on the replacement pack - suggests to me that they are using good condition packs. It makes sense, because at that price they can afford it, and the cost of the bad publicity and rework is quite high. Personally at $13k I would go for it, much as I would wish it had happened early enough to be under warranty.
Electric700
Active Member
Below are some main battery repair options that should be much lower than $12 - 13k. You'd have to check on the included warranty and whether they can match or exceed Tesla's.
grubermotors.com
electrifiedgarage.com
Tesla Service | Roadster Repair | Gruber Motor Company
Welcome to Gruber Motor Company. The first commercial independent Tesla service organization providing engineering and aftermarket support. Model S black screen fixes, Roadster battery recovery, refurbished headlights and taillights and many other products and services are available.
grubermotors.com
Electric Vehicle Service
Expert third-party service for maintenance, repair, and customization, all at competitive prices.
electrifiedgarage.com
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
No need to check, they don’t. There is no real warranty with any of the third party options.
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