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Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S
- Thread starter badpenny
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- bad battery hv battery
We've done a couple, but it's a huge PITA compared to the S/X. We're still trying to work on a workflow that can make it cost effective for us to add the Model 3 to our service program, but it's definitely going to be tricky to hit a price point that's not too wild.
k3rn3lkill3r
Member
I doubt the entire battery pack has died or been damaged. It’s likely a component failure in the battery that’s let the smoke out. This is where electronic repair experts are going to shine soon. Thousands of 18650 batteries, controllers and contactors inside of the housing and I would bet only 1% has actually failed or been damaged.
My understanding is there are 2 parts to the battery -- the control electronics and the batteries themselves.
The batteries are enormously complex -- they're weird little chemical analog electronic things with 20-30 different dimensions per battery and per battery brick. All of it has to be balanced across all those devices for some set of critical dimensions for the battery management system to be happy. There are lots of patents and lots of dark voodoo hidden in there that may or may not be reasonable to assume is silly "ya ain't gonna need it" stuff. For some of those dimensions, perhaps an engineer thought there's a small chance this or that parameter contributed to one thermal runaway, so they nerfed it. Others, if you don't get it right the batteries catch fire on their 800th and above cycle if it's below 40 degrees f. But fine otherwise....
Tesla themselves are in an okay position to test each module and possibly find matching sets of modules for refurbished packs. Presumably they've got the piles of dead packs, the test suite, etc. Even they only offer a 2 year warranty, which probably means they really don't trust their refurbished packs at all.
The power / BMS electronics, probably they can just be fixed, no problem.
Those stacks of ex-tesla battery packs, probably, are better used for per module applications downstream.
Hopefully tesla comes out with a lower cost pack options besides just the refurbished packs. Ideally they'd lower the price of the existing new replacement and also come out with LFP based replacements with less range and lower cost the refurbished. Hello BYD!
(IMO the legacy S/X models are the ideal test platform for evaluating battery technologies -- they're well understood, battery swaps on them are fast, they're setup to phone home and deliver all the battery telemetry, etc. )
I suspect that Tesla repairs any failed packs where it is just an electronics problem, which was hinted at in a recent fireside chat as being the largest percent of failures. For packs with a module/cell failure they take 16 modules packs and make 14 module packs out of them. If they can't get 14 good modules out of a pack it is probably just fed in to their recycling process. (They have mentioned that they don't really have enough failed packs to really get their recycling process going good.)
Of course that only applies to "legacy" Model S/X packs. All of the current packs only have 4, for the 3/Y, or 5, for the S/X, modules in them. So if it is anything but an electronics problem the pack is probably just sent to the recycling process.
dark cloud
Active Member
lightningltd
Member
Actually, the 1014116-00-C are 100% new and DO show up in the catalog. They show up under 2016+ parts as:
I am scheduled to receive this battery on July 5th for my 2013 S85. The SC has the battery and is waiting for new rear suspension arms to handle the extra weight for stability.
lightningltd
Member
No. They are new. If they are remanufactured in ANY way, they must be disclosed as REMAN. Reman parts show up on the invoices and parts catalog (either in the description or part number) as REMAN (as per legal disclosure requirements).
That's what I thought, that they are not remanufactured from the older modules. And, the 1014116 packs are the only 14-module packs we know of (On Edit: as the replacements for 85kWh packs) and Tesla is asking $22K for them if you want to buy out of pocket.
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lightningltd
Member
There has been much speculation about what the remanufacture process entails... If its just replacing the BMS or other boards, it would be cost effective to replace them and label it as a reman.
As for the theory that Tesla is going to tear down a pack, test each module and pull out 2 bad ones, it would likely end up being cost prohibitive just from a labor perspective. Each of the remaining modules would all need to be close in the tolerance range (finding 14 matching modules, re-arraigning them, etc.), and even then could end up being a liability down the road and prone to further failure.
I would think that if there are bad modules, they send the battery for recycling. They COULD use the modules for other purposes, such as solar storage, since the tolerances are much lower.
In fact, there is a VERY strong secondary market for the used modules. I suspect they are selling them to those markets.
In any case, a remanufactured part MUST be disclosed as such on the invoice per the law (In California its 16 CCR § 3356,c,(2)).
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
lightningltd
Member
But with the old battery technology or smaller capacity modules.
dark cloud
Active Member
SilverString
Member
Wk057 says he has seen that they sometimes remove two modules from a 16 module pack to make a 14 module pack. Diagnostics would tell them which two modules to remove before they even open it. The remaining 14 modules are already "perfectly" matched, no searching necessary. So labor would be minimal. However the BMS does have to be be replaced.
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