Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

[FMinMI]

I am a bit baffled at why people are keeping their SETECs. Tesla fights to make them not work, but you can probably get $600 for it on ebay right now, and pick up a Korean adapter for $320. Is it because you (like me) have a car without the CCS chip and you absolutely need to charge that way? I'ts hard to think of other reasons to hang on to these. You could also buy a Korean CHAdeMO for around $400 and while a bit bulkier, it will do the same job though there are fewer CdM at EA stations.

Looks like you answered all your own questions...
I have to wait for Tesla to offer the 'upgrade' and the adapter :-(

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Looks like you answered all your own questions...
I have to wait for Tesla to offer the 'upgrade' and the adapter :-(

Exactly. I would think it’s supply problems keeping it off the US market place. But the other possibility is that once the CCS adapter is available a lot of people will stop using the Supercharger network just because of the expense. Especially in Canada. At least where we are every other network is cheaper than Tesla.

Jmho.

 

[SVMike]

Maybe Tesla is waiting for US legislation that provides incentives for EV chargers that might include restrictions based on compatibility

 

[e of pi]

Maybe Tesla is waiting for US legislation that provides incentives for EV chargers that might include restrictions based on compatibility

I mean, that's already true. The infrastructure bill call for stations with at a minimum four stalls capable of providing 150 kW or more to each of four vehicles simultaneously using at a minimum CCS at each stall. Getting their vehicles able to use that coming wave of stations would just be to the benefit of their own drivers.

 

[jookyone]

Is the arc flash hazard "sparking" when you disconnect the device during a live charge session (instead of stopping it first)? Has this caused equipment damage (or personal injury) to a previous user? Guess I have not heard about it...

To my knowledge that is the reason. There is no safety device that holds the adapter to the charge cable, they just click together. if you pulled the cable out of the adapter while charging it could short something in the car, or shock the life out of you. I don't think Tesla fighting it has anything to do with the safety of the car. Despite what people think Tesla cares about their vehicle owners, they need them to pay for FSD and monthly premium service.

 

[jookyone]

Exactly. I would think it’s supply problems keeping it off the US market place. But the other possibility is that once the CCS adapter is available a lot of people will stop using the Supercharger network just because of the expense. Especially in Canada. At least where we are every other network is cheaper than Tesla.

Jmho.

For myself

Looks like you answered all your own questions...
I have to wait for Tesla to offer the 'upgrade' and the adapter :-(

From my own experience it is a nice to have for areas that do have CCS and I don't want to charge slowly on J1772 (Canada was ahead of the game on public funds for free chargers but they all seemed to be J1772). But I road trip a lot, and having every available charge option is convenient for me, and from what I understand EA will be phasing out CHAdeMO from it's stations.

Cheers!

 

[FMinMI]

Exactly. I would think it’s supply problems keeping it off the US market place. But the other possibility is that once the CCS adapter is available a lot of people will stop using the Supercharger network just because of the expense. Especially in Canada. At least where we are every other network is cheaper than Tesla.

Jmho.

I have free SuC for life but want the CCS adapter for when we travel in areas were there are none (SuC), or where they are far away making the drive inefficient, or are just too busy to wait in line. The latter is especially concerning - with them making/selling more and more Teslas, lines are now forming and it is not the 5 minute wait (as at busy gas station pumps) but 30 minutes+. With the expansion of 'other' DCFC chargers, being able to charge 'anywhere' fast is becoming more important.

And about your other point - at least in the states I heard the SuC cost is less than competing EV charging stations, so I don't believe it is about losing money. And Tesla has said they were going to open up the chargers to everyone here as they have already started doing in some EA countries. I think they just see this as being low priority, unfortunately...

 

[FMinMI]

To my knowledge that is the reason. There is no safety device that holds the adapter to the charge cable, they just click together. if you pulled the cable out of the adapter while charging it could short something in the car, or shock the life out of you. I don't think Tesla fighting it has anything to do with the safety of the car. Despite what people think Tesla cares about their vehicle owners, they need them to pay for FSD and monthly premium service.

But have you heard or read about this actually causing an incident? I have unplugged devices from 120V while in use and yes, sometimes saw a 'flash'. Never did it with either 220 or 440, nor at high amperage. I have seen linesmen disconnect power on very high voltage lines while under load, and of course it is done often by them (but with special safety gear and equipment).

So, once again I ask, is it a 'potential' issue or a proven, real safety concern?

 

[mociaf9]

I have unplugged devices from 120V while in use and yes, sometimes saw a 'flash'. Never did it with either 220 or 440, nor at high amperage. I have seen linesmen disconnect power on very high voltage lines while under load, and of course it is done often by them (but with special safety gear and equipment).

Recall that what we are talking about in the case of the adapter is DC power (at 350 to 450 volts) going into the car from the CCS charger cabinet, not AC power like what you have at your wall outlet or on the grid mains. This makes a big, big, BIG difference in the discussion or comparison of arcing dangers/hazards. The AC circuits you mentioned, regardless of whether they are "high voltage"/high current or not, are actually spending significant amounts of time at low to 0V every ~8.3 miliseconds or so (for a 60Hz AC system like North America's). That significantly reduces the arcing hazard compared to DC, which is maintaining a constant voltage.

For a good demonstration of this major difference, watch the following video. The beginning shows and goes over the test set-up, so skip to 3m 10s if you aren't interested in that bit and all you want is to see the demonstration:

 

[FMinMI]

Recall that what we are talking about in the case of the adapter is DC power (at 350 to 450 volts) going into the car from the CCS charger cabinet, not AC power like what you have at your wall outlet or on the grid mains. This makes a big, big, BIG difference in the discussion or comparison of arcing dangers/hazards. The AC circuits you mentioned, regardless of whether they are "high voltage"/high current or not, are actually spending significant amounts of time at low to 0V every ~8.3 miliseconds or so (for a 60Hz AC system like North America's). That significantly reduces the arcing hazard compared to DC, which is maintaining a constant voltage.

For a good demonstration of this major difference, watch the following video. The beginning shows and goes over the test set-up, so skip to 3m 10s if you aren't interested in that bit and all you want is to see the demonstration:

Thank you. That was very informative. Surprising the difference between DC and AC circuits...

 

[dgpcolorado]

With regard to arcing, when unplugging: if you were to unlock your port with your fob, screen or phone, wouldn't that shut off current? Do that before unplugging and I would assume that the car is no longer drawing current and the adapter is safe to remove from the CCS plug.

 

[srs5694]

With regard to arcing, when unplugging: if you were to unlock your port with your fob, screen or phone, wouldn't that shut off current? Do that before unplugging and I would assume that the car is no longer drawing current and the adapter is safe to remove from the CCS plug.

As I understand it, Tesla's official concern is not with unplugging the adapter from the car, which is locked in place by a mechanism in the car, but with unplugging the CCS plug from the Setec adapter. That is secured only by a manually-activated clip on the CCS plug.

That said, it's also my understanding that depressing the button on the CCS plug is supposed to immediately cut off power. (Certainly that's the way it works with J1772 equipment.) If that's correct, then there should be no danger IF everything is in good condition -- but anybody who's seen much public charging equipment knows that sometimes equipment is not in good condition, so maybe (I'm very much speculating here) that's the concern. I've seen only the tersest of public comment from Tesla, so all I can do is speculate on this. If anybody has pointers to an official explanation from Tesla beyond the brief message displayed on the car's screen or second-hand comments from customer support people, I'd love to see it.

I also don't have enough experience with CCS vehicles to know how they secure the CCS plugs to their ports -- do they rely on the plug's latch, or do they have additional locking mechanisms? That seems relevant because if it's possible to unplug a CCS plug from a CCS car while it's charging, then Tesla's explanation (such as it is) seems stricter than is common in the industry; but if all other CCS vehicles have car-based locking mechanisms, then Setec's design is a bit cheap/sloppy at best and potentially dangerous at worst, if the car-based locking mechanism is to prevent arcing if things go wrong.

 

[stopcrazypp]

As I understand it, Tesla's official concern is not with unplugging the adapter from the car, which is locked in place by a mechanism in the car, but with unplugging the CCS plug from the Setec adapter. That is secured only by a manually-activated clip on the CCS plug.

That said, it's also my understanding that depressing the button on the CCS plug is supposed to immediately cut off power. (Certainly that's the way it works with J1772 equipment.) If that's correct, then there should be no danger IF everything is in good condition -- but anybody who's seen much public charging equipment knows that sometimes equipment is not in good condition, so maybe (I'm very much speculating here) that's the concern. I've seen only the tersest of public comment from Tesla, so all I can do is speculate on this. If anybody has pointers to an official explanation from Tesla beyond the brief message displayed on the car's screen or second-hand comments from customer support people, I'd love to see it.

I also don't have enough experience with CCS vehicles to know how they secure the CCS plugs to their ports -- do they rely on the plug's latch, or do they have additional locking mechanisms? That seems relevant because if it's possible to unplug a CCS plug from a CCS car while it's charging, then Tesla's explanation (such as it is) seems stricter than is common in the industry; but if all other CCS vehicles have car-based locking mechanisms, then Setec's design is a bit cheap/sloppy at best and potentially dangerous at worst, if the car-based locking mechanism is to prevent arcing if things go wrong.

CCS1 has a latch lock actuator on the car side, this post shows how it works on a Bolt:
Tesla needs to move to CCS in North America
This is required by the CCS standard, so every single CCS car has it. I was able to finally find a presentation that shows more details about the CCS protocol, page 103 shows the lock is one of the mitigations for unintentional disconnect:

https://tesla.o.auroraobjects.eu/Design_Guide_Combined_Charging_System_V3_1_1.pdf
Note this is not just a passive catch for the latch (like the Setec), it is active actuator (CCS requires a lock monitor on the vehicle side that prevents charging if it detects the cable is not locked to the car, see page 81).

Obviously, the Setec adapter violates this and doesn't have such a mechanism (the adapter can still be "locked" to the car while the cable is disconnected on the charger side).

Tesla's dumb CCS adapter instead has a little latch locking pin that works to lock the cable, so you can't unlatch it unless the car unlocks it (so prevents situation of you disconnecting the cable from the adapter before the car allows it):

J1772 also sends a signal on the proximity pilot when the release button is pressed to allow for a controlled shutdown. The Setec adapter apparently does not pass this through either (at least according to comments of people who tried after initially thinking it did, put link in code format given this forum doesn't seem to allow direct link to youtube comments without converted it to embed video).
SAE J1772 - Wikipedia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HsmRFGlq7Y&lc=Ugx0Da904yPHr1FX_Ml4AaABAg.9SEJ6CfQmaV9SF62v3xBC0

Given it simulates Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter, it kind of makes sense why it doesn't however. CHAdeMO has a different locking mechanism, the motorized lock is built into the connector itself (it is not vehicle side), which is why Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter is ok just using a simple catch, it's not depending on the vehicle to activate/deactivate the lock.

Much of this was discussed in this thread, with example of arcing due to faulty latch on a Bolt + EA combo (arguable if it's the car's fault or the charger connectors fault though):
CCS Adapter for North America

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Just verified my SETEC CCS adapter still works fine. Charged MY on an EA 350kW station. SETEC pulled 46 kW at 70% State of Charge on my battery.

This is with firmware 164-1. My MY is 2022.8.3 software version.

I'm glad someone is able to get theirs to work. I just tried again at an EA 150kW station and got to payment processing then my Model S threw a BMS_u030 "Charging adapter has electric arc flash hazard" error and it failed. Was trying again for an upcoming road trip.

 

[Big Earl]

But have you heard or read about this actually causing an incident? I have unplugged devices from 120V while in use and yes, sometimes saw a 'flash'. Never did it with either 220 or 440, nor at high amperage. I have seen linesmen disconnect power on very high voltage lines while under load, and of course it is done often by them (but with special safety gear and equipment).

So, once again I ask, is it a 'potential' issue or a proven, real safety concern?

DC power presents a much more serious arc flash hazard than does AC power, especially at the voltage and amperage associated with charging an electric car.

Here is an arc flash demonstration just using four solar panels:

Direct comparison between AC and DC (must watch):

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Basically I think the Setec is a $600 paperweight unless you want to live on the edge and make it a straight pass-thru adapter that works with CCS enabled cars... And even that sounds pretty risky and dangerous so prob not worth it.

Is anyone able to get this thing to work still? I've never had a successful charging session with mine (although I've only tested less than 10x or so at like 3 different locations)

 

[JonB65]

Basically I think the Setec is a $600 paperweight unless you want to live on the edge and make it a straight pass-thru adapter that works with CCS enabled cars... And even that sounds pretty risky and dangerous so prob not worth it.

Is anyone able to get this thing to work still? I've never had a successful charging session with mine (although I've only tested less than 10x or so at like 3 different locations)

I just tested mine last week. Firmware 164-1. No issues on EA charger. Got 50kW on a Tesla Model Y 2021 built in February 2021.

 

[BritneySpears]

Basically I think the Setec is a $600 paperweight unless you want to live on the edge and make it a straight pass-thru adapter that works with CCS enabled cars... And even that sounds pretty risky and dangerous so prob not worth it.

Is anyone able to get this thing to work still? I've never had a successful charging session with mine (although I've only tested less than 10x or so at like 3 different locations)

works fine for me. Used Evgo. Latest firmware update. The car still shows an arc error message stating the device I'm using shouldn't be used, or something like that. But it still charges.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

works fine for me. Used Evgo. Latest firmware update. The car still shows an arc error message stating the device I'm using shouldn't be used, or something like that. But it still charges.

Interesting. What do you drive?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I just tested mine last week. Firmware 164-1. No issues on EA charger. Got 50kW on a Tesla Model Y 2021 built in February 2021.

I wonder if the adapter works on M3/MY but not on MS/MX? I have a 2018 MS