SF Bay Accident Surveillance Footage

Exclusive: Surveillance Footage of Tesla Crash on SF’s Bay Bridge Hours After Elon Musk Announces “Self-Driving” Feature — The Intercept

Musk has said Tesla’s problematic autopilot features are “really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero.”

apple.news

 

[RSpanner]

The speed limit on the SF Bay Bridge is 50 mph.

View attachment 894470

I wonder at what speed the vehicles on the videos were going?

If the Tesla was using FSD, and if the vehicle was going faster than 50 mph,
the driver must then have been pressing the accelerator,
so can this situation be considered as Full Self Driving?

If the driver was pressing the accelerator, then could a phantom braking could occured?

it looks like 70 is the now 50.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If this was a user initiated lane change, he could be in trouble.

I don’t see why. User-initiated changes can be done within NOA without exiting from NOA. So there would be nothing knowingly incorrect about saying that FSD/AP/NOA was changing lanes and was is control, with a user-initiated lane change.

(Same with hitting the brake, as you say, assuming it was inadvertent, which seems likely, if this hypothesis is actually correct.)

 

[brkaus]

What about the theory the car thought it was in a surface street above and approaching an intersection to turn left?

 

[Dewg]

What about the theory the car thought it was in a surface street above and approaching an intersection to turn left?

It's possible, could have been a GPS issue. Several others drive that section regularly and don't have issues, but if there was a mapping error with GPS the car could have thought it was on a different road.

 

[bradtem]

While I agree that Tesla publishes misleading numbers, calculating the true numbers seems very difficult. Even if they were to correct for where AP is used there are so many other variables. You need to also correct for when people use AP. Do people use it more or less at night? Do people use it more or less in bad weather? What if there is a difference between drivers who use AP often and those that don't?

I'd like to see the TACC only numbers. I bet those are the best.

What Tesla has to post is just apples to apples comparisons. It knows what people drive on, what class of roads. It can say, "For freeways, the rate of airbag deploys is X with AP on, Y with it off." It can break it down more finely off highways, but can group together roads with similar overall accident rates (for all cars or all Teslas.) It would not be hard to do.

 

[bradtem]

It's possible, could have been a GPS issue. Several others drive that section regularly and don't have issues, but if there was a mapping error with GPS the car could have thought it was on a different road.

GPS would not function in that tunnel. Any nav system uses its road graph to know you don't just change decks on a highway. If they can't do that, it would be a bad failure. For one thing the upper deck goes the other way and it would then think it was going the wrong way on a highway, and I don't know what it would do then but change lanes is not the right answer.

 

[brkaus]

GPS would not function in that tunnel. Any nav system uses its road graph to know you don't just change decks on a highway. If they can't do that, it would be a bad failure. For one thing the upper deck goes the other way and it would then think it was going the wrong way on a highway, and I don't know what it would do then but change lanes is not the right answer.

Where specifically is this on a map? Which part of the bridge/tunnel?

 

[Mardak]

What about the theory the car thought it was in a surface street above and approaching an intersection to turn left?

Here's an example of FSD Beta active about 10 feet left of the original lane this Tesla switched out of then back in to:

What if Navigation was rerouting because it thought the exit was taken due to inaccurate GPS?

 

[bradtem]

Where specifically is this on a map? Which part of the bridge/tunnel?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

It is actually quite hard to use google maps around here because it, unlike a car, will switch decks.

 

[TresLA]

That’s far too much explaining.

But Tesla calls it FSD and Full Self Driving on their website.

FSD Chip​

Build AI inference chips to run our Full Self-Driving software, considering every small architectural and micro-architectural improvement while squeezing maximum silicon performance-per-watt. Perform floor-planning, timing and power analyses on the design. Write robust tests and scoreboards to verify functionality and performance. Implement drivers to program and communicate with the chip, focusing on performance optimization and redundancy. Finally, validate the silicon chip and bring it to mass production in our vehicles.”


And the chip is used in this feature you can buy

View attachment 894638

Not sure how more explanation will ever get you to admit you’re wrong.

 

[2101Guy]

Not sure how more explanation will ever get you to admit you’re wrong.

Once Tesla and Elon stops calling it FSD then I’ll call it what they call it

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/1673471298230-png.894638/

 

[mongo]

Once Tesla and Elon stops calling it FSD then I’ll call it what they call it

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/1673471298230-png.894638/View attachment 894840

Navigate on Autopilot is a feature of Enhanced Autopilot which your image shows is different from FSD.

Further, lane keeping is a feature of Autopilot, yet another different option.

Finally, using the inventory filter page to support your point due to its brevity is just a tad weak...

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla Support

 

[Mullermn]

Here's an example of FSD Beta active about 10 feet left of the original lane this Tesla switched out of then back in to:
View attachment 894699

What if Navigation was rerouting because it thought the exit was taken due to inaccurate GPS?

I don't think navigation would be responsible. Navigation chooses where the car wants to go, but the car makes its driving decisions based on the road and traffic that it detects for itself - it shouldn't slow down just because a map says there's a turning ahead, it should slow down because it has seen the turning ahead.

I think it would need strong evidence to believe that the above is NOT how Autopilot (or FSD) works, because Tesla's whole thing is that the car should be able to drive absolutely anywhere only using the resources in the car itself. Its the other manufacturers working on the problem who use pre-computed maps etc. to varying extents.

 

[Mullermn]

Dirty Tesla discussion of this incident

 

[2101Guy]

Navigate on Autopilot is a feature of Enhanced Autopilot which your image shows is different from FSD.

Further, lane keeping is a feature of Autopilot, yet another different option.

Finally, using the inventory filter page to support your point due to its brevity is just a tad weak...

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla Support
View attachment 894857View attachment 894858

But...this still says Full Self Driving here

 

[MP3Mike]

But...this still says Full Self Driving here


View attachment 894863

So what. Yes, they sell something named FSD. But that doesn't mean the person at the front of this accident bought it, and even if they did they might not have enabled it, and if if they enabled it, they weren't using it at that location, because it doesn't work at that location. It falls back to EAP or just plain AP depending on if you have purchased EAP and enabled NoAP.

So the fact is anybody saying that FSD was involved in that accident is 100% wrong.

 

[mongo]

But...this still says Full Self Driving here


View attachment 894863

Yeah?

Finally, using the inventory filter page to support your point due to its brevity is just a tad weak.

And if you use that option, here is the search result:

 

[2101Guy]

Yes, they sell something named FSD.

FINALLY.

@TresLA ? Your welcome.

 

[Watts_Up]

Dirty Tesla discussion of this incident

At 6:45 on the video, 'Dirty Tesla' talk about Phantom braking, but he doesn't think this could be the case:

- 1. because in case of Phantom braking the car could slow down brutally but this don't seems to be the case, as it seems to be a slowly slow down.

- 2. Also in case of Phantom braking, the car might slow down but would not stop into a full stop.

- 3. Even if the car slow down because of Phantom braking, on the video it is very noticeable that the driver had plenty of time to accelerate?


I wonder if the driver was falling asleep and then the car stopped. But why in this case the car could had changed lane?

 

[2101Guy]

At 6:45 on the video, 'Dirty Tesla' talk about Phantom braking, but he doesn't think this could be the case:

- 1. because in case of Phantom braking the car could slow down brutally but this don't seems to be the case, as it seems to bee a slowly slow down.

- 2. Also in case of Phantom braking, the car might slow down but would not stop into a full stop.

- 3. Even if the car slow down because of Phantom braking, on the video it is very noticeable that the driver had plenty of time to accelerate?


I wonder if the driver was falling asleep and then the car stopped? But why in this case the car could had changed lane?

Great points.

SURELY Tesla has logged a TON of data from this accident that would answer a LOT of questions...like they have before when they have posted log data to refute claims in prior accidents where drivers claimed FSD was active.

The only action that Tesla has seemed to have taken in this incident thus far is Elon's censorship on the matter