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SF sues oil companies because of climate change

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,536
5,936
Silicon Valley
Save your facts and reason..... that's a foreign language to the ideologues and zealots. The sad reality is that some people have built a religion around the idea that nothing good can come from anything not driven by the profit motive... their minds are closed. :( Fortunately there's an 'ignore' button and only ~4 zealots on this thread :)

Funny, by using this technique you are burying your head in the sand and avoiding the debate on the SF lawsuit :cool:
 

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
1,688
1,785
NM
unbelievable, do you realize the burdens that you would be heaping onto to people? especially the poorer ones who you think should be on public transport or in tiny cars. imposing taxes to influence societal norms in this manner will raise the cost of EVERYTHING, not just confined to fuel.
you have voiced the typical elitist point of view, raise the costs of everything, "I don't care, the poor can do without"

Less pollution will lower health costs and increase quality of life - especially for the poor.

In addition to SF lawsuit I'm looking forward to states suing for air pollution across the state lines. That ought to increase cost of coal as well.
 
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bxr140

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
2,746
3,856
Bay Area
Funny, by using this technique you are burying your head in the sand and avoiding the debate on the SF lawsuit :cool:

Debate? That's what you call it. :confused:

As with any thread of this nature, there's a bunch of zealots hell bent on changing the subject any time rational thoughts are presented. Like trying to imply that the So...sometimes its more fun to poke those deniers to get their panties bunched up. It is the internet after all. ;)

If you'd like to debate, the lawsuit is about major power misleading for the purpose of fiduciary exploitation. Do you believe it is acceptable to take financial advantage of someone by lying to them?
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,182
672
Cary, NC
Sorry but mitigating the effects of AGW are going to hurt everyone. Escalating gas prices hurt everyone as does the ripple effect of food etc. There is no reasonable alternative to reducing consumption.

The economy adjusts and labor costs at the low end increase to make up for it. The ripple effect continues. The whole process encourages conservation and fossil alternatives. It is logical and rational. And 10 years from now, no one is driving that old Chevy Tahoe and most new cars are EVs. Buildings have been upgraded. Solar panels are on every roof without shade. And wind farms are ubiquitous. The poor are breathing better air - because us elites already live in areas with good air. The coal ash spills have stop contaminating the poor's water supply.

Life and the economy go on. And we spent less than the Gulf War. That the poor fought and died in. And then we need to spend some money mitigating the AGW effects that are going to happen anyway. And we survive and thrive. And with less hurt than if we did nothing.

Hey - the oil economy got us where we are today. We need to use this amazing amount of energy to move past the oil economy.

Thanks for the Alinksy reference - you learn something new everyday. Reminds me a lot of Trump. It is the whole full circle of ideology. I honestly didn't take it as partisan (and I guess it really isn't) but #3 is FUD - classic oil industry tactic, and Trump is big on 5 and 12 - and most others.
 

kort677

Banned
Sep 17, 2015
4,801
2,242
florida.
Less pollution will lower health costs and increase quality of life - especially for the poor.

In addition to SF lawsuit I'm looking forward to states suing for air pollution across the state lines. That ought to increase cost of coal as well.
increased quality of life? really? you lefties just don't seem to have any sort of economic sense.
 

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
1,688
1,785
NM
increased quality of life? really? you lefties just don't seem to have any sort of economic sense.

Yes some find it hard to believe but it's true. Here are some examples:

The global pollen problem is getting worse and worse

Pollution make asthma symptoms worse:
https://www3.epa.gov/airnow/asthma-flyer.pdf
From the article:
"Particle pollution can be bad any time of year, even in winter. It can be especially bad when the weather is calm, allowing air pollution to build up. Particle levels can also be high: — Near busy roads, during rush hour, and around factories. — When there is smoke in"

Another one:
"research has shown a strong association between urban air pollution and respiratory symptoms such as coughing, wheezing and shortness of breath"


I do understand your concern that lowering asthma related symptoms and health problems due to toxic metals in food and water would likely lower insurance profits in USA. Rest of the world is looking forward to it.
 
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realvvk

Member
Feb 8, 2017
261
216
Philadelphia
and they wonder why some refer to the place as the land of fruits and nuts.
I bet the case gets tossed because the city has no standing in the matter.

I hope it does not get tossed. I hope it goes all the way to the Supreme Court. It would be so nice to create a legal precedent against claims of man-made "climate change" in this country.
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
If it fails, SF will sue under the ADA laws on behalf of short people. It seems the whole city built the sidewalks and flooring too close to their butts, which makes it hard for them to reach things. They should have built the sidewalls and floors taller. So the concrete companies and flooring companies need to pay up right now.
 
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kort677

Banned
Sep 17, 2015
4,801
2,242
florida.
I hope it does not get tossed. I hope it goes all the way to the Supreme Court. It would be so nice to create a legal precedent against claims of man-made "climate change" in this country.
An example of an emotional response versus a factual/realistic response
 

DragonWatch

Small FootPrint
Aug 22, 2016
1,025
3,394
Mother Earth (Grapeview, WA)
First, there are no conservatives or liberals, just as no one religion is better than another.

Second, what we have are deniers vs those less so. Deniers desire your rights, or seek to prevent you from thinking or believing what they want from your life. They do not seek or tell the truth through bullying. Their motivation is creating fear and hatred. It is no different than the movie our kids watched forever, The Dark Crystal. Where the Skeksees(sp) sucked the essence of life from others.

Twenty years ago, plus or minus ~ more plus than minus, when I retired from military service, my wife and I tried to join the local Presbyterian church. We were/are white, always have been, we had gone to church most of our lives. My enlisted career had been as a heired gun and clerk for the Chapain that I served. During my brake from service I met my wife on a Presbyterian backpacking trip. Not the local bar:cool: So, you could say we were died in the wool Christian's. Just under two years after my separation from the service our son died in an ICE car fire at the ripe old age of nineteen. His current girlfriend had been drinking and was driving that night. He had been drinking too and could have stayed back from the road trip. As things were settling and the church was finally allowing us in the door following his death, I decided to start a men's breakfast to discuss religious topics with hopes of communicating with the klan. Apparently one village idiot brought up guns and I said I did not believe in guns;) My god, not yours:confused:, you would have thought I got up on the table in front fifteen men, pulled my pants down and laid a fresh pile of dog poo, not human poo, but dog poo right in the middle of the restaurant table and topped off their coffee with pee:rolleyes: Well, our first meeting went from fifteen down to about five in thirty seconds or less. No one, and I mean no one took into account that I had been a rifle instructor at fifteen at the lake arrowhead scout camp. No one knew or cared to know that I had fired more pistol and rifle bullets than 75% of bubb's across america. No one cared that I had fired more missiles or rockets than 99% of bubb's across america. No one, especially the coward that jumped to his feet declaring me a gD liberal. That was proof enough for me that you cannot drive a square peg into a round hole:( I gave the group another year or so before walking away and never looking back because I was denied friendship and community. Oh, and probably 100% of those denying cowards never enlisted or served during the Vietnam war like me:mad: I had just been outed as a liberal:eek:

So, no there are no lefties or righties, just deniers of science, deniers of the poor, deniers of women, deniers of black rights, deniers gay rights, deniers of any topic you choose, any topic. Just denying liers that cannot face their fear and hatred.

Are you denying there is a problem, or are you denying someone is guilty, or are you denying a debate, or denying . . . @kort677 the guy driving around town with a sock tied to his truck towing bracket, and inside the sock are two tennis balls is telling me he is denying that he has no balls and is trolling to find one or two for himself ;) Should I deny him the right to drive. Should I deny him the right to display his cowardice? Should I deny him the right to convey his hatred and distain for who I am? His intent is to threaten me ~ Right?

Is this a debate? Or, denying that anyone will be found guilty? Or, denying the truth that our justice system is hell bent on denying the rights of life. Or, denying. . . o_O

You could deny me the right to my free speech by blocking me, but that would not prevent me from saying my piece with the rest of the folks here. I could deny you the right to free speech by blocking you, but then I would be denying myself a chance to exercise my free speech with you. So, I will just deny that I wrote this for your benefit ;)
 

rays427

Member
Dec 3, 2014
444
88
Penn Valley, CA
Check out indoor air pollution and you will see it is a major problem in developing countries where they don't have access to cheap alternatives to wood, dung, etc for cooking and heating. Overall in the world this is a much worse health problem than what is caused by fossil fuels. The developing countries will improve their health situation by increasing there use of cheap energy to generate more electricity. Some will be renewables but a lot of it will be fossil fuels.
 

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2012
6,776
24,211
Philadelphia, PA
Developing countries won't be building out fossil infrastructure for the simple fact that it's far more difficult, less reliable and infinitely more expensive. If you don't already have a base of fossil production and delivery, it already makes zero sense to build it out anew. Distributed renewable energy has already won the war.
 
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