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Shafted by Blackhorse [title edited to reflect contents of thread]
- Thread starter TM3PTN
- Start date
That is mostly but not entirely true. Tesla are apparently providing some kind of residual guarantee to Black Horse - the details of which are obviously confidential, but the existence of such a contract can be seen from Tesla's companies house filings, where there's a charges registered in favour of Black Horse over various Tesla assets in respect of "the Manufacturer Supported Payment and Buyback Agreement".
As @Mark_T has said earlier, there are two parties the OP is dealing with here - Tesla and Blackhorse. He has paid a deposit to Tesla to buy a car at a given price and spec. That hasn't changed.
He has then applied to Blackhorse for finance on the car. They have quoted one figure and are now changing that not because the price of the car has changed, but because they don't think it will be worth as much in 4 years time as they did when the quote was done. Nothing to do with Tesla, so the title of the thread is rather unfair.
IME it is unusual for a quote to be changed in this way, but it is only a quote and not binding until the agreement is signed when the car is handed over. The OP could walk away.
@arg great detective work and that's something I didn't know (obvious from my post above). Nonetheless it is an issue between Blackhorse and the OP. Best practice would have been Blackhorse to reissue quotes to those affected and not left it until the last minute. Really best practice and in the spirit of the FCA's Treating Customers Fairly (TCF) which Blackhorse will be signed up to - they stick to the original quote.
This will have been in place for some time now as there have been frequent deals over recent years involving promotional interest rates and inflated residual values. So the charges could relate only to prior periods or may indeed relate to current contracts, but no easy way to be sure.
I'm not even sure if the residual support is still there post-HMRC pronouncements a few months ago, but even so, it does not make them directly responsible for the terms that Black Horse offer to customers, that would remain a commercial decision for Black Horse.
A PCP deal is just another type of loan, and sadly loans can and do vary until they are signed, but I do agree it would be at least helpful to make it clear if there is a particular time limit on the validity of a finance quote, rather than simply stating that it is 'not an offer of credit' which just leaves it as pretty much meaningless.
Wow - plenty of discussion on here today. Just catching up.
Re. my comment referring to no equity in the car - that was me with blinkers on (apologies for the error). In my cloud of anger I took the 'final repayment' to be the same as the GFV of the car. But as an aside, where do I find the GFV? I can't see it anywhere in the Blackhorse paperwork...
Regarding who is to blame - with all due respect - I really don't care. As far as I am concerned both parties are culpable. Tesla earn a commission for every BH finance agreement signed through them. They are an intermediary and the pre-contract information makes it clear that they earn money out of this (it even states that we can request information around amounts paid by BH to Tesla should we wish). So in my eyes Tesla are also party to this. If they wanted to help they could surely work something out with BH when something like this happens (and it should be a rare occurrence). But what has happened here is that they have waited until the last minute to send me the relevant details thereby making it near on impossible to re-plan.
Re. name of this thread - as the above. I really am not precious about it.
Re. the PCP finance quote. I know I am not bound but even with my healthy salary and 999 credit score, other finance providers don't stack up for the amount I am borrowing (£45k). Also, the point regarding the offer of credit being typically made before all your financials are known - I disagree. The fact that they ask you for all of your financial details and confirm a successful application once you have applied tells me that they have done their credit checks, assessed the information you have provided to them and have made a decision concluding that you are fit to take out the finance. They don't suddenly do more checks 3 days prior to car delivery unless there has been a material change in circumstances that has come to light.
When I bought my Merc I walked into the dealership, told the chap what I wanted, we played some money tennis (negotiating), we came to a deal and the spec was submitted to manufacturer. I provided my financial details for them to carry out a credit search and eligibility for finance. This came back almost instantly (the time it took one of his colleagues to get me a coffee and a cookie), and I left with the finance in place. I didn't then suddenly get a phone call a few months later to say the finance that was agreed is now rubbish and a new agreement has been drafted with different financials - that just doesn't happen (never in my experience anyway).
I really do appreciate all of the views on here - some very well put arguments from all angles
Re. my comment referring to no equity in the car - that was me with blinkers on (apologies for the error). In my cloud of anger I took the 'final repayment' to be the same as the GFV of the car. But as an aside, where do I find the GFV? I can't see it anywhere in the Blackhorse paperwork...
Regarding who is to blame - with all due respect - I really don't care. As far as I am concerned both parties are culpable. Tesla earn a commission for every BH finance agreement signed through them. They are an intermediary and the pre-contract information makes it clear that they earn money out of this (it even states that we can request information around amounts paid by BH to Tesla should we wish). So in my eyes Tesla are also party to this. If they wanted to help they could surely work something out with BH when something like this happens (and it should be a rare occurrence). But what has happened here is that they have waited until the last minute to send me the relevant details thereby making it near on impossible to re-plan.
Re. name of this thread - as the above. I really am not precious about it.
Re. the PCP finance quote. I know I am not bound but even with my healthy salary and 999 credit score, other finance providers don't stack up for the amount I am borrowing (£45k). Also, the point regarding the offer of credit being typically made before all your financials are known - I disagree. The fact that they ask you for all of your financial details and confirm a successful application once you have applied tells me that they have done their credit checks, assessed the information you have provided to them and have made a decision concluding that you are fit to take out the finance. They don't suddenly do more checks 3 days prior to car delivery unless there has been a material change in circumstances that has come to light.
When I bought my Merc I walked into the dealership, told the chap what I wanted, we played some money tennis (negotiating), we came to a deal and the spec was submitted to manufacturer. I provided my financial details for them to carry out a credit search and eligibility for finance. This came back almost instantly (the time it took one of his colleagues to get me a coffee and a cookie), and I left with the finance in place. I didn't then suddenly get a phone call a few months later to say the finance that was agreed is now rubbish and a new agreement has been drafted with different financials - that just doesn't happen (never in my experience anyway).
I really do appreciate all of the views on here - some very well put arguments from all angles
The final payment is equal to the GFV, and the documentation should say that - or words to that effect. You make a lump sum payment of that amount and the car is yours, or hand it back if you don’t want to. I would expect the final payment on the latest paperwork to be lower than the one originally quoted, which is why the monthlies have increased.
Tesla’s admin is shocking and you certainly deserve to be treated better but I’m afraid customer service has largely disappeared
That is the GFV, it is their estimate of the residual value and you either pay that to them and keep the car, or they accept the car back in exchange for writing off the final payment, hence, GFV.
Your chances of having any equity in the car at that point are higher if the GFV is lower and if so you should want to make the final payment and keep the car since you could then sell it at a profit.
For most of us it makes little sense as up to now, the GFV has been crazy high. Good if you want ot return the car as it makes the month costs lower, but bad if you intend to keep it as you are paying too much at that point compared to the market value.
Maybe your process was different, for me I got the quote on the finance first, then they got me to fill out the paperwork and gave final approval. Mine was all in a very compressed timescale though as I bought an inventory car and had it delivered 1 week after order.
My point though was more that the original quote could only ever be indicative in that circumstance and could never be held out as an offer capable of being accepted.
So I was right in thinking that, but was wrong because I assumed the GFV/final payment to be the actual value of the car in the future.The final payment is equal to the GFV, and the documentation should say that - or words to that effect. You make a lump sum payment of that amount and the car is yours, or hand it back if you don’t want to. I would expect the final payment on the latest paperwork to be lower than the one originally quoted, which is why the monthlies have increased.
Tesla’s admin is shocking and you certainly deserve to be treated better but I’m afraid customer service has largely disappeared
Glad I haven’t suddenly lost the ability to understand car finance overnight!
Yeah the final payment has fallen, hence my frustration because it has caused the monthlies time increase.
Nuts.
Yeah that’s what I originally thought re.GFV but for some reason my brain wasn’t computing
It does sound like your process was different (although mine is an inventory order from 3rd October so timescales have been similar). Yeah I get the indicative bit
Well we’re on delivery day anyway so I’ll be signing off my work laptop at 1pm and making my way to pick the machine up
this weekend is going to be fun (fingers crossed)That’s a good way of doing it - gives you an idea of residual movements. Might use this tip myselfThe whole thing is nuts. I regularly spec a Model S car to keep an eye on how things change. The GFV day before yesterday was £28k. Today same car, same price - GFV £37k, which translates to £200 pm less.
That’s nuts!It’s pricing, significant model/spec changes and APR that I look out for - nearly 20 in last 15 months or
It’s no wonder we can’t ever get hold of anyone! They’re too busy trying to get their heads around what the latest product and price mix is!
I’m an accountant but I don’t envy those working in Tesla’s finance department
must be a nightmare!That’s nuts!
It’s no wonder we can’t ever get hold of anyone! They’re too busy trying to get their heads around what the latest product and price mix is!
I’m an accountant but I don’t envy those working in Tesla’s finance department
Yep, and those 20 changes are only to the Model S
Good luck with the pick up, hope it goes ok and don't forget a pic or two
ThanksYep, and those 20 changes are only to the Model S
Good luck with the pick up, hope it goes ok and don't forget a pic or two
Yeah I'll definitely be taking some pics. May even venture to a supercharger tonight for some #netflixandcharge although i'll most likely need to get v10 installed first...Well the car is home and it is a dream ! pics in the M3 Photos thread.
Drives well and all those people concerned about road noise with the 20" wheels must have had Rolls Royce's for their previous car because the noise is no different to any other car I have driven. The wheels are comfy and the acceleration is brutal (in a good way).
Autopilot was set in about 10miles so I managed to use it on the M60 (ring road around Manchester), and it worked perfectly when i was in slow moving stop-start traffic due to an accident.
Going to head to a supercharger later and play around with settings, etc. while it charges.
To make things better i somehow managed to get 2,000 supercharger miles on my account AND the chap threw in a frunk mat after a bit of smooth-talking he just took it out of one of their demos - "the demo won't need it if we aren't including it in the new specs". Fine by me
Drives well and all those people concerned about road noise with the 20" wheels must have had Rolls Royce's for their previous car because the noise is no different to any other car I have driven. The wheels are comfy and the acceleration is brutal (in a good way).
Autopilot was set in about 10miles so I managed to use it on the M60 (ring road around Manchester), and it worked perfectly when i was in slow moving stop-start traffic due to an accident.
Going to head to a supercharger later and play around with settings, etc. while it charges.
To make things better i somehow managed to get 2,000 supercharger miles on my account AND the chap threw in a frunk mat after a bit of smooth-talking
he just took it out of one of their demos - "the demo won't need it if we aren't including it in the new specs". Fine by me 
