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Shocked from gutters after Solar Roof activated

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BLUF version: Inverters sent enough electricity to gutters to shock me while cleaning. Solved with firmware update?

Our solar roof was installed in May 2021 but inverters not turned on until Oct while awaiting PTO. Tesla did not remove or switch out the existing gutters during install.
At the end of October I was doing my end of leaf season gutter scleaning when I realized one of the gutter section would shock me every time I reached in. I then checked with a Klein non contact voltage tester (NCVT-2) and that gutter was causing it to start beeping 4 inches out. Then I noted all of my gutter downspouts at ground level also was causing the tester to activate 3-4 inches out. Then I noted that my son's bedroom window which is at roof height was setting off the tester from a 4 inch distance. Nothing around the inverters or 2 Powerwalls caused the tester to activate.
When the sun went down no voltage was detected at those spots. I was not smart/interested enough to just shut off the inverters during daylight to test whether there was detectable voltage.
After much scouring of TMC/Reddit/internet to see if there was any post mentioning something similar I gave up and put in a service request 11 Nov mainly to figure out if this was a dangerous or normal situation. Today (13 Dec) the Tesla electrician spent 4 hours at the house (mostly on tech support with the engineers) and ended up updating the firmware of the inverters. He said the voltage now should be at a level that is safe and he said he did not get shocked when he touched the gutters. There was no mention of miswiring.
The non contact voltage tester still goes off near the gutter downspouts at ground level. I will wear rubber gloves when I clean the gutters in the Spring after pollen/tree flowering season.

I figure we are all beta testers with the solar roof and wanted other users to know of this possibility.

Still confused how my NCVT-2 which is supposed to only detect alternating current is going off when the solar tiles should be just producing direct current.
 
If it were me, (I am a Electronics Tech), I would start looking for any cables near the gutters. That could cause an induction of voltage in them from the magnetic field generated by the electric current in the cables. That would be the reason you are getting an AC indication because the magnetic field generates AC when a conductor is passed through it, (magnetic field from cables increasing and decreasing).
 
The non contact voltage tester still goes off near the gutter downspouts at ground level.
Did you notice this while the Tesla electrician was still there (and if so, could he or she explain why)?

I would start looking for any cables near the gutters. That could cause an induction of voltage in them from the magnetic field generated by the electric current in the cables.
That's interesting. For my solar roof, the bottom row of tiles (adjacent to gutters) are not PV so the wiring connecting PV tiles is further away. I wonder if @chucklesn has PV tiles in the bottom row or has a conduit running close to a gutter downspout.
 
The Tesla electrician said the firmware made it a safe voltage..which implied that there was still some present. Probably the best 'stand by your work' part was that he touched the gutters to make sure he didn't get shocked afterwards. Of course we are a week out from Winter Solstice show not a whole lot of power production going on right now.

Of the 5 sections of gutters the only one that had given me a shock is on the shaded North section of the roof with that entire plane being non-PV tiles. The wiring from the opposite side shouldn't run anywhere near that section of the gutters and the conduits down to the inverters are approximately 30 feet from the closest end of a gutter/downspout.

I have minimal experience/knowledge of electricity so truly appreciate the comments.

gutter location.png
 
I currently have this exact same situation.

My roof was finalized on 12/28/21, and then while re-installing a window screen on a ladder, I touched the metal flashing and received a bit of a jolt. Pulling out a multi-meter I found a 60 VAC delta between the metal flashing around a window to my aluminum ladder with plastic feet as a poor ground. I am currently waiting on a technician/electrician to come perform a software update, as they claim they do not believe it's actually a short, but a feature of legacy software.

I don't currently backfeed to grid, I'm waiting on a new utility meter, so this kind of makes sense to me. My understanding of the system is that when you cannot backfeed, and your batteries are full, the system uses an AC signal over the DC feeds to switch panels on/off. Though panels I believe always need to discharge something, or create a voltage when in direct sun, so they dissipate this as heat to the flashing system. If true, it seems like a resistor bank/heater would be a better solution. (This would also be a rare occurrence if able to backfeed)

The only part that doesn't really make sense to me about this is that my batteries are not full, so unclear why the system would discharge to the flashing. The current production is also not maxing out the charge rate of the batteries.
 
Though panels I believe always need to discharge something, or create a voltage when in direct sun, so they dissipate this as heat to the flashing system.
No, that's not what happens when the PV panels are illuminated but the inverters aren't producing power. The energy never leaves the panels and is instead converted to heat, like it would with any non-PV material exposed to the sun.

Cheers, Wayne
 
While dissipating HEAT to metal flashing may be reasonable, discharging CURRENT to flashing and/or gutters does NOT seem a sane setup to me. If the voltage to the gutter is supposedly controlled by firmware, it is obvious that the firmware is already faulty if it allows 60VAC to the gutter. I would ask to talk to the licensed electrician responsible for the job, and find out EXACTLY what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

Stray 60VAC to the gutter is NOT normal, especially in the OP's case where the gutter is nowhere near the electric installation!
 
I currently have this exact same situation.

My roof was finalized on 12/28/21, and then while re-installing a window screen on a ladder, I touched the metal flashing and received a bit of a jolt. Pulling out a multi-meter I found a 60 VAC delta between the metal flashing around a window to my aluminum ladder with plastic feet as a poor ground. I am currently waiting on a technician/electrician to come perform a software update, as they claim they do not believe it's actually a short, but a feature of legacy software.

I don't currently backfeed to grid, I'm waiting on a new utility meter, so this kind of makes sense to me. My understanding of the system is that when you cannot backfeed, and your batteries are full, the system uses an AC signal over the DC feeds to switch panels on/off. Though panels I believe always need to discharge something, or create a voltage when in direct sun, so they dissipate this as heat to the flashing system. If true, it seems like a resistor bank/heater would be a better solution. (This would also be a rare occurrence if able to backfeed)

The only part that doesn't really make sense to me about this is that my batteries are not full, so unclear why the system would discharge to the flashing. The current production is also not maxing out the charge rate of the batteries.
Thanks for posting about your experience. Am hoping the electrician coming to update the software can give
you a better explanation of what we are experiencing…
 
While dissipating HEAT to metal flashing may be reasonable, discharging CURRENT to flashing and/or gutters does NOT seem a sane setup to me. If the voltage to the gutter is supposedly controlled by firmware, it is obvious that the firmware is already faulty if it allows 60VAC to the gutter. I would ask to talk to the licensed electrician responsible for the job, and find out EXACTLY what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

Stray 60VAC to the gutter is NOT normal, especially in the OP's case where the gutter is nowhere near the electric installation!
This is a great point, I would agree that CURRENT should never be present on the exterior roof. So again quite concerning.

I have three sections of roof, two are joined by flashing, and the third is isolated by a wood structural boundary. All three sections show an a voltage today in dry conditions of about 2-4VAC, when my previous measurement was in wet conditions 60VAC. When I further looked at the isolated section, It's really unclear to me how this is occurring (if there is no short), especially since all the panels have encapsulated wiring, connections, and on panel circuitry. I was also told the DC feeds are ungrounded part of the system from the original install crew, so how there is any connection to the flashing is a bit perplexing without a short or some third hardware connection I never saw otherwise during the install.
 

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Thanks for posting about your experience. Am hoping the electrician coming to update the software can give
you a better explanation of what we are experiencing…
I was also instructed to open a support ticket today, but sat on the help line for over an hour and a half without ever getting answered. Otherwise I'm also a bit shocked to see that the support line is available M-F 7-4 PST, by phone only, seems a bit ridiculous in today's age and for this company. I left it with my Project Manager to get this resolved.
 
I was also instructed to open a support ticket today, but sat on the help line for over an hour and a half without ever getting answered. Otherwise I'm also a bit shocked to see that the support line is available M-F 7-4 PST, by phone only, seems a bit ridiculous in today's age and for this company. I left it with my Project Manager to get this resolved.
Keep us updated, as this doesn't seem right to me either. I don't really know enough about the solar roof to help, but certainly am curious how a firmware update will prevent this condition.

This is certainly dangerous if presenting as an objectionable shock while working on your house, just doing normal maintenance. What I do not understand is why it's presenting as an AC signal, when it would more likely be DC in my mind.
 
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Keep us updated, as this doesn't seem right to me either. I don't really know enough about the solar roof to help, but certainly am curious how a firmware update will prevent this condition.

This is certainly dangerous if presenting as an objectionable shock while working on your house, just doing normal maintenance. What I do not understand is why it's presenting as an AC signal, when it would more likely be DC in my mind.
I would agree on the AC signal, which I can only think means one of three things:
  • The roof install shorted an existing normal house circuit
  • The AC signal over the DC lines is grounded to the flashing
  • An AC signal is being induced (I have a 40 foot vertical, and 60 foot horizonal section of metal conduit for the DC feeds.)
 
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After further local testing, there is some kind of induction/capacitance issue going on here, I am now most likely in agreement with Tesla that it is not due to a short.

After my morning call with the PM, they claim its an induction/capacitance issue of how the inverters work, and are apparently rebuilding inverter control software to fix the issue. It sounded like this issue wasn't going to be fixed overnight and likely may take some time.
 
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That's wild, thanks for posting.

Does some flashing run under some of the active tiles? I'm trying to picture how there would be enough surface area between active components and flashing/gutters to cause this. Depends on the frequencies involved also though...

So if it's really induced as they say, grounding is a way to make those surfaces safe. It would be interesting to see what Tesla says about that option. Although I think grounding has some impact on lightning protection. Might depend on region of the country whether that is recommended or not.
 
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That's wild, thanks for posting.

Does some flashing run under some of the active tiles? I'm trying to picture how there would be enough surface area between active components and flashing/gutters to cause this. Depends on the frequencies involved also though...

So if it's really induced as they say, grounding is a way to make those surfaces safe. It would be interesting to see what Tesla says about that option. Although I think grounding has some impact on lightning protection. Might depend on region of the country whether that is recommended or not.
From what I saw in the install, the panel tiles are isolated in the center of the roof, edged by either glass or metal tiles, which then tie into a metal edge detail around the entire surface. All connectors are "plug and play" from what I saw, so very unclear how any of the DC circuitry or tiles would be directly electrically connected. The entire issue also is AC, not DC, and so seems to be related to induction vs a short.

I have the latest SR72T-2 tiles. I can't find any install documentation that shows how the PV Rapid Shutdown circuits work, but my understanding is that an AC signal is sent over the DC feeds to trigger these units, and that this signal is likely part of the AC inductance issue we are seeing.

I've attached some photos.

Video of the voltage pen:
 

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I have the latest SR72T-2 tiles. I can't find any install documentation that shows how the PV Rapid Shutdown circuits work, but my understanding is that an AC signal is sent over the DC feeds to trigger these units, and that this signal is likely part of the AC inductance issue we are seeing.

I see your meter can measure the AC voltage frequency. Perhaps you can check it and it might provide more clues. It seems odd that RSD would send AC over the DC lines.

Is there any DC voltage between the tile and earth?