Shopping for an ICE for my wife...

[804son]

Hey fanboy, relax. I'm saying why limit yourself when there are other great options available especially for my family? I can deal with the quirks (and frustrations) of owning a Tesla but I would not impose that on my wife.

Hey FUD Boy, First of all I'm not a Fanboy if and when I feel Tesla has made the wrong decisions or produced a product of less than satisfactory quality. I will absolutely and unequivocally say so. I also personally don't like they way Elon manages Tesla. So you can cool the fanboy remarks. Your remarks about Flat Tires, Pot holes, Range Anxiety, Waiting at SC's and it taking months to get any repair done. Are not representative of the majority and certainly not my experiences. You do you....

 

[bobbyjae]

Hey FUD Boy, First of all I'm not a Fanboy if and when I feel Tesla has made the wrong decisions or produced a product of less than satisfactory quality. I will absolutely and unequivocally say so. I also personally don't like they way Elon manages Tesla. So you can cool the fanboy remarks. Your remarks about Flat Tires, Pot holes, Range Anxiety, Waiting at SC's and it taking months to get any repair done. Are not representative of the majority and certainly not my experiences. You do you....

Just because they are not your experiences do not mean it's not happening (and it's more common than you think). Like I said, I would rather not have my family deal with those issues when there are other great options available. I don't think my comments warrant such a heated response.

 

[804son]

Just because they are not your experiences do not mean it's not happening (and it's more common than you think). Like I said, I would rather not have my family deal with those issues when there are other great options available. I don't think my comments warrant such a heated response.

Because you're the one who painted the picture of how unreasonable it is to own 2 Tesla's and your multiple reasons why it can't possibly work. Well It is working well and not just for me, there are alot of people on this forum that are electric only and functioning just fine. Once you start throwing out the Fanboy remarks, you can bet I'm going to respond.

 

[Merrill]

This thread is confusing, I have 2 Tesla’s my model S is a 2013 and my model X is a 2016 I cannot see driving an ICE car ever again ( I was in the car business for my career). Have had very few problems with either car and next year I will have an R1T as well.

 

[bobbyjae]

Because you're the one who painted the picture of how unreasonable it is to own 2 Tesla's and your multiple reasons why it can't possibly work. Well It is working well and not just for me, there are alot of people on this forum that are electric only and functioning just fine. Once you start throwing out the Fanboy remarks, you can bet I'm going to respond.

Hey buddy, you called me a troll first and don't expect me to respond?

This post is about shopping for OP's wife. Just because it's working great for you, doesn't mean it's great for everyone.

 

[804son]

Hey buddy, you called me a troll first and don't expect me to respond?

This post is about shopping for OP's wife. Just because it's working great for you, doesn't mean it's great for everyone.

No I said your post was FUD, which it was. Really Pot holes, flat tires, get real. Those things will and do happen with any vehicle. Supply chain issues are also affecting every manufacturer not just Tesla.

 

[E90M3Jerez]

Th

I would not suggest someone pay over MSRP for a vehicle. If they do, they should realize that the extra cost will probably not be returned to them when they sell the car. The problem is that the current supply/demand imbalance will be reconciled over the next few years then the car price will return to MSRP and used prices will again be derived from that MSRP. If one pays $10K, for example, above MSRP for the vehicle during a time of high demand, then sells the vehicle when that unordinary demand has resolved, the person will lose the entire markup plus all the depreciation. Depreciation is hellishly expensive anyway and the loss of that extra dealer markup makes the cost of ownership much more expensive. The exception might be if one plans to keep the vehicle until the wheels drop off, then that additional cost will be amortized over the service life of the vehicle. In our case we ordered and got a Telluride for MSRP. Additionally we tend to keep vehicles until they are of voting age.

The previous discussion of gas prices vs the extra one pays for an electric is based on a similar discussion and similar concerns that were present when I was in college half a century ago. At that time popular cars were large thirsty Detroit products. A gas crisis hit and many people were suddenly trading their land yachts for small, more gas efficient cars. The small cars sold at a hefty premium and you could barely give away those huge gas guzzlers. A similar analysis demonstrated that if one traded in the large car and purchased the smaller one, the gas savings payback time exceeded the likely useful life of the new small car. On the other hand for the college student, the purchase of a large car was a veritable bargain for reliable transportation, in spite of the more expensive fuel. Since the large cars were worth less, insurance was cheaper. Parts were plentiful. The large cars were safer as well. When tests are done evaluating crash data, they never crash small cars into big ones because the difference in mass makes the larger vehicle much safer. In those days dollars mattered to a lot of us, and to me especially.

Many people didn’t make the analysis back then. They reacted vicerally, bought the expensive smaller car, and paid money they’d never get back. I see some people not making the analysis now. They react to $7 gas impulsively.

I don’t suggest people should not buy any car they want. I don’t suggest fuel costs should play a primary part in every new car decision. It is a cost like any other, so may be important and if so is worthy of a look.

If gas savings is the prime motivation for the trade, then one should look realistically at that gas savings, the initial cost of those savings, and see if the return is actually going to provide the savings anticipated. It may help with lease vs purchase decisions, and it may help with determining what one buys and how often one plans to trade cars. If gas prices are irrelevant to the decision, then just ignore this.

The way I am approaching my situation is that I can make what I paid out the door for my Telluride (purchased Nov 21 for 3k over) and still have a lower monthly payment with a model Y. I am also dropping a car from insurance, this insulating myself further from higher insurance rates on the Y. To me it seems like a no brainer, but I am in a unique situation to be able to not take a hit on my gently used Telluride. I’m going to capitalize on it while I can.

 

[Exelion]

Going back to the original subject, I think PHEV’s (plug in hybrids) would work great for most people, more than EV’s and they’re not too much of a step backward, if any at all. Electric for around town and gas when you need it. Yea, i do get the compromises of complexity, multiple powertrains, and decreased storage and room, but they’re good for people not yet ready to jump head first into EV’s.

I actually looked at the RAV4 prime against the Model Y but unavailability crossed it off the list.

More of these vehicles need to be made.

 

[laservet]

My wife’s new Jeep Compass didn’t come with a spare tire. A lot of new cars don’t come with one now.

Last figures I saw about 40% of the new ICE cars on the market come without a spare tire. A spare tire reduces gas mileage/electric range and takes up space.

 

[schen72]

Last figures I saw about 40% of the new ICE cars on the market come without a spare tire. A spare tire reduces gas mileage/electric range and takes up space.

That's right. My previous Acura didn't come with a spare. Neither does my current 2022 Sienna.

 

[D.E.]

This thread has been about nothing but randomness for pages. Your reply is typical BS, framed to fit your silly point in framing gas costs vs car vs ev, stupidiness. I brought up gas prices because the prices are freaking insane. You took that as an invitation to regurgitate anti EV agenda lines. Good job.

I’m not anti EV.

We’re all aware of gas prices. If you didn’t want it discussed in the context of a vehicle purchase, it was damn silly of you to bring it up.

You should probably add me to your ignore list. Please.

 

[thesmokingman]

I’m not anti EV.

We’re all aware of gas prices. If you didn’t want it discussed in the context of a vehicle purchase, it was damn silly of you to bring it up.

You should probably add me to your ignore list. Please.

Don't reply to my posts then. WTF?

 

[Suns_PSD]

This seems like a good time to mention that fuel prices are dropping notably.

From my perspective, fuel prices were considerably higher in 2008-09 when they hit essentially the same numbers, but everything in comparison was much cheaper than it is now.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Please don't go down this idiotic rabbit hole. If one is about budet, one can get a cheaper EV and save. I didn't buy the MYP for luxury or one aspect over another. Its the whole package. And I would not have thought to buy a cheaper ICE vs the MYP, so I can save 20K which is a number made up for a BS fabricated argument. And then spend that 20K on gas for however long. I've never thought like that. And on the matter of cars, the cars I compared the MYP to are not 50K, luxo barges, those are the last freaking SUV's I'm interested in. The MYP for ex. competes against the likes of the AMG GLC 63 or BMW X3 M which are more expensive.

I accept that you don't see it this way, however looking at Tesla's objectively from a feature set perspective, well a pretty inexpensive ICE is in fact completely comparable. For more than $20K less in fact.

Of course we all understand that driving an EV is lovely and no ICE can compete with many of these EV specific attributes. However many people are using their car for transportation, and it just needs to be comfy. Unfortunately there is currently a dearth in inexpensive EV options.

Fortunately buying cars is often a subjective call, not an objective one, something I do all too well.

 

[D.E.]

When corrected for inflation, you’re right.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Well if the only thing that counted about a vehicle purchase was the "Economics" I would just drive a used 1985 Yugo. No Thanks.

That statement purposely ignores the fact that you can buy a brand new totally reliable and well featured ICE car, that is much less money to own/ operate than a $70K EV.

You had to go all extreme but no one else was trying to compare your MY or any new modern ICE car to a 35 year old discount car. The rest of us are talking about reasonable comparisons here.

 

[Exelion]

That statement purposely ignores the fact that you can buy a brand new totally reliable and well featured ICE car, that is much less money to own/ operate than a $70K EV.

See, that kind of comparison is the problem, and one that continues to be made about Tesla's, (and EV's in general). totally reliable and well-featured cars that costed low $$$ have always been around, and always will be. If one was to go for ownership cost comparisons with those types of cars, to any other vehicle, including other, more expensive ICE vehicles, they win, period. But, it isn't fair to compare those types of vehicles to luxury vehicles, premium cars, sports cars, EV's, PHEV's, or even hybrids, because those have features that are not present in those low cost, reliable cars.

Electric propulsion is a feature (and a big one). Trying to compare two cars that are similar in aspects like four-doors, unibody SUV style, five passengers, a tall ride height, and then saying one is so much cheaper because it has a different propulsion is not comparing apples to apples.

So is electric propulsion, and everything that comes with it, good and bad, worth the $20,000 cost? To everyone who owns an electric car, (and still owns it), it is. For those that don't well, it isn't.

 

[804son]

That statement purposely ignores the fact that you can buy a brand new totally reliable and well featured ICE car, that is much less money to own/ operate than a $70K EV.

You had to go all extreme but no one else was trying to compare your MY or any new modern ICE car to a 35 year old discount car. The rest of us are talking about reasonable comparisons here.

Actually you have misconstrued my comment completely. I was stating that using only economic factors that a extremely cheap used ICE car is what you would end up driving. Car buying is much more complex than that and simple economics of transportation cost from point A to point B, is not a good evaluation. Your analysis is leaving out many of the other reasons people have chosen to drive electric vehicles even though the initial buy-in cost may be higher

 

[Suns_PSD]

See, that kind of comparison is the problem, and one that continues to be made about Tesla's, (and EV's in general). totally reliable and well-featured cars that costed low $$$ have always been around, and always will be. If one was to go for ownership cost comparisons with those types of cars, to any other vehicle, including other, more expensive ICE vehicles, they win, period. But, it isn't fair to compare those types of vehicles to luxury vehicles, premium cars, sports cars, EV's, PHEV's, or even hybrids, because those have features that are not present in those low cost, reliable cars.

Electric propulsion is a feature (and a big one). Trying to compare two cars that are similar in aspects like four-doors, unibody SUV style, five passengers, a tall ride height, and then saying one is so much cheaper because it has a different propulsion is not comparing apples to apples.

So is electric propulsion, and everything that comes with it, good and bad, worth the $20,000 cost? To everyone who owns an electric car, (and still owns it), it is. For those that don't well, it isn't.

The electric propulsion angle is a good one. I like it and agree it is a feature.

But really what started this was the 'cost savings' argument.

If only an EV will do, and I get that for some it's the only way, well then now you are just comparing EV's with their respective EV counterparts and that's rather a small and expensive market.

But for most while electric propulsion is great, it's probably not more important than saving 5 figures over a vehicle's operating lifespan. Those people should study costs very carefully before buying a new EV. Now if they were going to buy a new $70K vehicle either way, well EVs will certainly reduce their fuel bill considerably and frankly saving $200/ month in gasoline is more an emotional signal than a monetary one if your dropping $70K on a car.

 

[CyberGus]

I drove past a BMW i3 yesterday.

GF: Why can't Tesla make a car like that?
Me: Ummm...because they have good taste?
GF: Even dog food has good taste
Me: Only if you're a dog
GF: What about 'Dog Mode'
Me: sigh