All this except I would say that Model S gets introduced with AWD a lot sooner than Model X, as in very soon. Just speculation.
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All this except I would say that Model S gets introduced with AWD a lot sooner than Model X, as in very soon. Just speculation.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
If the development of the Tesla AWD System has been fully accomplished why not producing the AWD Model S already this year? IMO the Tesla AWD System, being powered by 2 electric motors, should have some revolutionary features. So it would be also a way to advertize such a system for the Model X being produced in 2015.
What I was thinking is that since the Model X is due for delivery this year with only AWD it would be prudent to actually test out the AWD system in the Model S before you begin mass production of the Model X.
It would be high time to start testing that system to have any potential kinks worked out.
That is exactly what I would do if I was running Tesla; it is just smart business. I highly doubt that the development of the AWD system is what is holding up Model X. Therefore, they probably already have it developed. I would deploy it ASAP in the Model S.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
Maybe it's what that hole in the frunk is for. An extra electric drive to enable awd and retrofittable. Any electric motor specialist here? Does the motor need to be in certain position vis-a-vis the wheels? Or can it be placed at the frunk?
My opinion (not a mechanic) is that retrofit is always possible but it would be a major undertaking. If you look at the 'frame only' skateboard model S in the stores there are several things that would need to be removed/moved in the vicinity of the frunk. Doable, but I think not too practical/cost effective.
As to sales: I think that while TM is supply constrained right now, and the RWD S handles well in snow, there are many people in snow belt areas that are reluctant to get one without AWD.
If I were part of TM management (and I admit you would all not want me to be :wink
and I knew I was going to be battery constrained for another 12-24 months I would try to make as big a gross margin as I could by concentrating of sales of the S. There would be minimal changes needed on the assembly line/structure/testing to make an AWD version first of the S before introducing the X. Producing the X, at what TM says will be sold at a comparable cost to an S, must carry with it a slightly lower gross margin than making an AWD S.
Just one person's opinion.
As to sales: I think that while TM is supply constrained right now, and the RWD S handles well in snow, there are many people in snow belt areas that are reluctant to get one without AWD.
If I were part of TM management (and I admit you would all not want me to be :wink
and I knew I was going to be battery constrained for another 12-24 months I would try to make as big a gross margin as I could by concentrating of sales of the S. There would be minimal changes needed on the assembly line/structure/testing to make an AWD version first of the S before introducing the X. Producing the X, at what TM says will be sold at a comparable cost to an S, must carry with it a slightly lower gross margin than making an AWD S.Just one person's opinion.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Norse
Active Member
I agree. According to my sources they have already tested the model S with AWD. I am not sure if my source is in the know, but he works for Tesla and it did not seem to be a secret. If they are going to sell the model S with AWD alot of people would trade their old one in or retrofit it. If it is impossible to retrofit I hope they start selling the AWD ASAP since we would get alot of used cars for sale. It is better to this when demand is high than to wait for it when they have ramped up production. Elon has previously said they are still consentrating on the model S, and I would hope this might be it.
Generally the idea of talking about your now improved product that arrives in 3-6 months is the best way to kill the sales of your current product. Though in Tesla's case they've got a queue lined up to fill any vacant position from anyone that wants to include 4WD and hence delay their order another say 6 months. So for testing purposes, wringing maximum sales price out of the S, and for bragging rights it makes perfect sense to launch the Model S AWD now with delivery this summer/autumn.
Looking at BMW they've got xdrive 5-series and X5 and both sell well. So yes a AWD Model S might steal som sales from Model X, but that is probably customers that prefer the lower and sleeker Model S anyway. With mostly the same profit for each car I can't see why Tesla needs to sell a Model X instead of a high-spec Model S.
Cobos
Looking at BMW they've got xdrive 5-series and X5 and both sell well. So yes a AWD Model S might steal som sales from Model X, but that is probably customers that prefer the lower and sleeker Model S anyway. With mostly the same profit for each car I can't see why Tesla needs to sell a Model X instead of a high-spec Model S.
Cobos
Norse
Active Member
I do not see anything negative with S stealing costumers from the X. I will buy the S if AWD, I will not buy the X, and rather wait dor GEN 3 if not.
I have heard Elon say (paraphrased) in an interview that "the Model X will be similarly priced to the Model S, maybe 10% more." That 10% is more than enough to keep the margins very high.
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who heard Elon say this, because I never saw anyone on TMC mention this before. It was just an off-handed remark by Elon and went completely ignored by the interviewer as well as the media. Just shows how ignorant the media really is because they think the Model X will have same price as Model S, and it won't.
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Jonathan Hewitt
Active Member
My favorite is when people think the Model X will be cheaper. I just stare at those people like they're from another planet. I agree with Bonnie, they will keep high margins on the Model X and price accordingly.
I suspect we will not hear much this week, at least not Monday or Tuesday, since SpaceX has a re-scheduled launch Monday from 2200 GMT and Elon will be fully occupied with that. It may be delayed again and I can't really guess the next date. Anyway, Elon will be very busy now. Maybe we'll hear something Friday, but more likely later, just in time for publicity on the Auto show.
My guessing ...
My guessing ...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Correct, and SUV's as a segment have higher profit margins as I understand it. Anyone thinking the larger, dual motor X is going to be the same price as an S will be in for a shock. I'm sure certain parts of the media will try to jump on this as an example of Musk being deceptive.
And the irony in all of this will be that the media is the one that was being deceptive the whole time.
Chickenlittle
Banned
In his German presentation he already said the model x would be slightly more expensive than the model s but only by single thousands figure. It was the same presentation as when he announce the German superchargers and speed upgrade
I think the AWD intro could be an opportunity to boost Tesla's image and put the AWD Performance+ Model S into supercar territory if it can get a mid 3 seconds 0-60mph time.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
My earlier prediction was they'd come out first with the super car (the P85++, so to speak), AWD, and VERY very pricey (I'll put a guess out there of around $200k). That won't siphon off any X sales, will garner huge publicity for Tesla - and then expect to see the regular version launched around the same time as the Model X, near the end of the year.
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But to be clear, I don't think that has anything to do with the employee meeting next week. I'd expect the 'Super P85+ AWD' to be in Q2.
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But to be clear, I don't think that has anything to do with the employee meeting next week. I'd expect the 'Super P85+ AWD' to be in Q2.
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