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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Just for fun, but also to get a feel for what the general vibe is.

Anyone want to guess what will happen on Monday? Will some random analyst downgrade Tesla? Will someone significant upgrade Tesla based on new information? Will Tesla pre-announce earnings?
I've said since Tuesday that TSLA will trade between 195 and 205 until ER and I'm sticking to that. My guess is we trend down to 195 up to earnings (TSLA always seems weak into earnings) on the back of at least 1 downgrade Mon or Tues.

Tesla almost certainly will not preannounce earnings. They've already moved it a week earlier than normal and moving it even further up would be quite odd (and I think unprecedented for TSLA).
 
He's missed it twice, because that's not even the mission of the company - it's to transform the transportation industry as quick as possible to EVs. The car driving itself is just a feature that came along with all of this.

This is entirely missing the game.

A fully self driving car can replace multiple cars. A household can manage with a single car instead of two. So it is far more powerful in "accelerating the advent of sustainable transport".

Even if the car is not fully self driving (it is merely Enhanced AP). The additional revenue will help accelerate additional factory build out. Or capacity build out within existing factories. There is absolutely no reason for Tesla not to chase additional revenue if it can.
 
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Serious green side strength on the 200 number. Maybe the shorts really are running out of motivation to keep it below $200.

I sure hope Elon's got the hurt cannon as loaded as I think he does for the ER next week.

I think ZEV alone is prepped for a big surprise nobody but a few of us here seem to be expecting. Tesla sold a little less than twice as many ZEV credits this year as in any year previous. Last year, TSLA earned ~$180M selling credits. So far in the preceding 3 quarters (the ZEV credit reporting window is a quarter out of sync with TSLA's fiscal year), we've sold ~$65M.

There is a lot of ways to calculate it, but:

Option A) We sold all those credits in the previous quarters for $65M and we got nothing this quarter for them much like 2Q16. $65M / 80,227 credits sold = $810/credit. This is a hard floor on what we could have gotten for the credits. In the middle of 2Q16 the rules changed for ZEV credits, meaning the number required by other automakers in 2017 and 2018 is reduced from what it was. This may have reduced the value of ZEV credits starting in 2Q16.

Option B) The credits sold in 4Q15 and 1Q16 were sold at around about the then going rate of $3500-4000, we sold hardly any in.2Q16, and the remainder were sold in 3Q16 for some lower amount. I expect this is what happened, as prior to the 2Q16 changes, there was no reason for the value of a ZEV credit on the open market to be any different. Lets assume we sold those 4Q15 and 1Q16 credits for $3750. $65M / $3750 = 17,333 credits sold. 80,227 - 17,333 = 62,894 credits left to sell in 3Q16. If we managed to still get the $3750 for them, that would be $235.8M of juice to the bottom line in 3Q16. Even if we got 50c on the dollar to what we used to get, that still be ~$118M of juice. With 149.8M outstanding shares, $118M of juice represents +$0.787 EPS on top of whatever we otherwise would have earned assuming $0 from ZEVs. We know for a fact that we sold them for at least $810/credit.

I believe the near-term loosening of the CARB restrictions (because its back with a vengeance in 2019, and its still unclear if the big automakers will be able to comply then, so they're gonna want to stockpile credits in this lull) may have reduced the market value of a ZEV credit somewhat, but I don't think that effect will be very big. I expect we will see around $1.20 EPS worth of juice from ZEVs this quarter.

That, coupled with the fact we sold 24,500 cars, which should improve margins (by distributing the fixed costs over more cars) and the temporary belt tightening on the expenditures (holding back on opening new stores, etc). I expect we may have been positive EPS before considering ZEV credits.
Exactly. This is why I'm excited. My spreadsheet assumes 61,656 ZEV sold in Q3 at a value of $2500 each, or $154 million additional gross profit. If I'm anywhere close to right then Wednesday is going to be fun.
 
Exactly. This is why I'm excited. My spreadsheet assumes 61,656 ZEV sold in Q3 at a value of $2500 each, or $154 million additional gross profit. If I'm anywhere close to right then Wednesday is going to be fun.
With Wall St analysts seeming to expect somewhere between ($0.65) and $0.02 as their expectation? Yep. Wednesday will certainly be fun if those get anywhere close to as soundly blown out of the water as I'm expecting.
 
In part because the value of a ZEV to the other automakers is ceiling'd at the $5k fine, sure, but it has a floor too, where it becomes cheaper for them to buy the credits from Tesla, than to build their loss-inducing compliance cars to earn them.

I suspect that floor isn't all that far from where the value was back in the spring. Building low-volume anything is expensive.

Take, for example: Honda FCX Clarity.

They leased them for $600/mo, a rate that implies a price around $50,000. HFCV's get 9 ZEV credits.

The handbuilt one-off predecessor to the FCX Clarity cost Honda about $1M. From 2008-2014 Honda only leased a total of 46 FCX Clarity units in the US.

In order to do better than just buying the credits from CARB, Honda needed to be able to build those cars for less than $95k ($86k if you knock off the extra $1k/credit to buy from Tesla instead of CARB). With that few produced, I imagine the real costs were higher, and that might be why Honda canned the program and has been buying ZEVs from Tesla.
 
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Just for fun, but also to get a feel for what the general vibe is.

Anyone want to guess what will happen on Monday? Will some random analyst downgrade Tesla? Will someone significant upgrade Tesla based on new information? Will Tesla pre-announce earnings?

I'm thinking we get a positive bump up in SP during the first hour of trading on Monday, provided macros are reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon gives some good news (but not earnings news) on Sunday, as he has the past two Sundays. The good news is that we have the full weekend to evaluate the news flow.
 
Only to a degree. Most vehicles are in use at the same times each day, going to and from work. Self driving cars don't solve that problem.

A future conversation between the master and his car overheard by NSA: "Here, varlet, take Nam to school at 10 a.m., bring her home after class, then I have the swing shift at 11 p.m."
 
I've said since Tuesday that TSLA will trade between 195 and 205 until ER and I'm sticking to that. My guess is we trend down to 195 up to earnings (TSLA always seems weak into earnings) on the back of at least 1 downgrade Mon or Tues.

Tesla almost certainly will not preannounce earnings. They've already moved it a week earlier than normal and moving it even further up would be quite odd (and I think unprecedented for TSLA).

This time I think things might be different. Tesla is technically very oversold and there has been way too much noise over the past few months.

As some have pointed out, the cash SolarCity has raised, will become Tesla's. Additionally, SolarCity bonds will begin to reflect Tesla's bonds.

I have no doubt this quarter is going to be used as an opportunity to explain why the merger makes sense in a way that will be explicitly clear to every analyst and investor.

There are a few things that haven't been highlighted by anyone, that are very clearly written in the SEC filings, that almost guarantee Tesla is extremely oversold.

I suspect Tesla is only range bound because too many people still believe the Tesla-SolarCity merger doesn't makes sense because of the noise that's been created by people like Chanos. Also, there has very little to no positive coverage about the merger since it was announced, and no comments from analysts who understand why the Tesla- SolarCity merger makes a lot of sense for both companies.

I guess I should point out that the margin requirement for SolarCity was massively increased at some point in the past 2 weeks. This might be contributing to what we saw today.
 
Just for fun, but also to get a feel for what the general vibe is.

Anyone want to guess what will happen on Monday? Will some random analyst downgrade Tesla? Will someone significant upgrade Tesla based on new information? Will Tesla pre-announce earnings?

I don't expect much out of the ordinary over the weekend or early next week. I'm sure we'll see some new FUD articles, although market resistance to them seems to be growing over time. Not sure what the market expects from the ER -- so that could be very, very interesting.
 
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This is entirely missing the game.

A fully self driving car can replace multiple cars. A household can manage with a single car instead of two. So it is far more powerful in "accelerating the advent of sustainable transport".

Even if the car is not fully self driving (it is merely Enhanced AP). The additional revenue will help accelerate additional factory build out. Or capacity build out within existing factories. There is absolutely no reason for Tesla to chase additional revenue if it can.
Sure, a small percentage, but my wife and I drive the opposite way going to work....so many different situations on this topic.
 
In part because the value of a ZEV to the other automakers is ceiling'd at the $5k fine, sure, but it has a floor too, where it becomes cheaper for them to buy the credits from Tesla, than to build their loss-inducing compliance cars to earn them.

I suspect that floor isn't all that far from where the value was back in the spring. Building low-volume anything is expensive.

Take, for example: Honda FCX Clarity.

They leased them for $600/mo, a rate that implies a price around $50,000. HFCV's get 9 ZEV credits.

The handbuilt one-off predecessor to the FCX Clarity cost Honda about $1M. From 2008-2014 Honda only leased a total of 46 FCX Clarity units in the US.

In order to do better than just buying the credits from CARB, Honda needed to be able to build those cars for less than $95k ($86k if you knock off the extra $1k/credit to buy from Tesla instead of CARB). With that few produced, I imagine the real costs were higher, and that might be why Honda canned the program and has been buying ZEVs from Tesla.

The more I'm rolling this idea around in my head, the more I'm convinced of it.

It doesn't matter if the other automakers don't need the credits because they're generating them on their own. What matters, is if those automakers are generating them by building cars at a loss, which so far as I can tell, most of them are. Any automaker earning ZEV credits by building low-volume compliance cars at a loss is better served by abandoning that project and buying credits from Tesla, as soon as the cost of the credits from Tesla drops below the losses per credit from the car. Even if they don't abandon the project, its still cheaper to get the credits by buying them from Tesla, and eventually you're going to need more and more credits, so getting credits cheaper than you can earn them is always a good idea.
 
Anyone want to guess what will happen on Monday?

Elon will introduce the Tesla Unicorn® via tweet storm on Sunday night. Once fully programmed in 2018 it will whisk you away to far away lands that you previously didn't even know you wanted to go to.

... and @myusername will proclaim he's had a (Tesla) Vision over the weekend and will be long and strong on Monday.

That's what I imagine anyway...
 
Yes, worries about the price was one of the main reactions I see in Model 3 reservation holders I know. Also the Model 3 sub forum right here at TMC you can also find people not liking it that much. Tesla needs to lay out the details about Tesla Network to convince them to join.

Not to sound callous, however, for people that are worried about 8k, they need not be affected. Tesla will (as it always has) push sales of the most heavily optioned M3s first. It makes no sense to push out lower margin poorly optioned cars early. If you can not afford options, you will have to wait. If you don't want to wait, thats unfortunate. As many have said, the units will move regardless. If this leaves a bad taste for some, I think that is legitimately unfortunate. However, as Tesla owner, M3 res holder and a shareholder, I would be upset if they operated in any other way.
 
Elon will introduce the Tesla Unicorn® via tweet storm on Sunday night. Once fully programmed in 2018 it will whisk you away to far away lands that you previously didn't even know you wanted to go to.

... and @myusername will proclaim he's had a (Tesla) Vision over the weekend and will be long and strong on Monday.

That's what I imagine anyway...
Hmmm.... but will it have foldable 2nd row seats?! #foldgate
 
Quick question. Analysts expectations of Q3, did they come to their conclusion before or after EM revealed the delivery numbers? Is it possible that they increased expectations after finding out how many vehicles were delivered, raising expectations and making it more difficult to beat?

Basically, I am really, really not in a position where I can take a negative ER right now.

I'm in the same boat Jay. My portfolio has been demolished by TSLA this year. If this ER goes badly, I'm in for a world of hurt.
 
I don't really understand why so many people assume that pricing for autopilot will carry over from S and X. S and X are playing in another league, they appeal to buyers with a way bigger budget and willingness to pay a given price for something so it only makes sense for Tesla to price the options accordingly. That's basic marketing. I am 99,99% sure the options on the Model 3 will be more affordable.
 
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