I think the other gigafactories (BYD, Samsung SDI, and LG Chem) will likely get close to Tesla's costs. But they might be behind a couple years. It's not like Tesla's GF is using some magical new technology. They're using mostly Panasonic tech, which isn't too drastically different than Samsung or LG's. GF is mostly benefiting from economies of scale, which BYD/Samsung/LG can also accrue as they scale their productions. Sure, their gigafactories might not be as large as Tesla's, but still they'll get nice economies of scale. (Example: BYD is projecting 34GWh production by end of 2019.)
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I think the other gigafactories (BYD, Samsung SDI, and LG Chem) will likely get close to Tesla's costs. But they might be behind a couple years. It's not like Tesla's GF is using some magical new technology. They're using mostly Panasonic tech, which isn't too drastically different than Samsung or LG's. GF is mostly benefiting from economies of scale, which BYD/Samsung/LG can also accrue as they scale their productions. Sure, their gigafactories might not be as large as Tesla's, but still they'll get nice economies of scale. (Example: BYD is projecting 34GWh production by end of 2019.)
Damn I know all what you said is true. So that makes me more anxious about M3 sales and envious to GM. Plus, most M3 buyers won't get the $7500 FED credit (hopefully $3750 still), and that makes Bolt even more attractive.
Geez, risk free? The value of their holding dropped 15% but they collected what 1.5% for the month. Sure the price can rise, but I only post the counterpoint here because some can be misled that basing investing decisions on short squeeze is a sound strategy. A short squeeze is a nice occurence if you are long but not a rationale for holding a stock. Make no mistake these have been the big boys selling, thus fewer shares to borrow, hold on for your own reason and not because of what you think the short sellers are going to do.
First of all, with the way GM has tried to block the sale of Tesla vehicles in multiple states, I am effectively boycotting GM and all its products. That is simply not a company I want to support. We had a Nissan Leaf for almost 3 years while we waited for my wife's Model X. The Leaf was an o.k. city car, but it drove like a cheap $17k car and was scary on the highway. I have not driven a Bolt, but with a 91 mph top speed, and the size and shape of a Sonic, I'm sure it is just as scary on the highway as the Leaf was. Hardly a performance sedan like a BMW 3 series. The Model 3 will probably drive extremely well and outclass BMW, and outclass the Bolt by a mile. Like everyone else has said, the Bolt is not in the same league as the Model 3. There is far more to a car than just range. Once the Model 3 is out, you would have to be crazy to buy a Bolt if the price is similar. That would be like buying a Mustang over a Porsche 911 if they were the same price.
The price of the Bolt (around $37k), is AFTER the federal tax credit (unless they have already started discounting the car). Also GM has been going through its allotment of the tax credit with cars like the Volt.
You can add to that: setting EV's back a decade with their handling of the EV1 program, lobbying CARB to relax ZEV requirements and negligent homicide of 124 people with their faulty ignition switches. I will never buy a GM product.
MTL_HABS1909
Active Member
In the real world, 0-60 is all that really matters. Anything else gets you a ticket. I don't get all these comments about lap times. Maybe 0.1% of people making these remarks have ever even driven a car on a track anyway, so who gives a *sugar*?
Your riposte does not take account of my Thai-born wife's apt description to her parents on first meeting, who are twenty years younger than I: "he's an 'extinguished' professor."
I thought you would point out the problem with my fantasy collector car, the M3. "In pristine condition. After market Panasonic battery pack available with needed connectors."
The Idea that the Bolt is a EV Sonic and a 15G car is ridiculous.
The Bolt is the same size, shape and platform as the Buick Encore that sells for between 24 and 33 G's. GM moved 70 thousand of those in the US and 160,000 globally last year. The Bolt has more room than the Encore, goes 0-60 in almost half the time, has some tech the Encore lacks, and doesn't use gas.
At least from the photos and prototype, the Bolt seems much closer quality wise to the Encore and from first drives show it being way more fun to drive.
The Porsche Cayenne Turbo shares the basic same platform as a VW Touareg; Is the Cayenne just a $40G car with a turbo?
The Bolt is the same size, shape and platform as the Buick Encore that sells for between 24 and 33 G's. GM moved 70 thousand of those in the US and 160,000 globally last year. The Bolt has more room than the Encore, goes 0-60 in almost half the time, has some tech the Encore lacks, and doesn't use gas.
At least from the photos and prototype, the Bolt seems much closer quality wise to the Encore and from first drives show it being way more fun to drive.
The Porsche Cayenne Turbo shares the basic same platform as a VW Touareg; Is the Cayenne just a $40G car with a turbo?
Hogfighter
Professional Lurker
May I ask, why all the hubbub over the Bolt? Does anyone really think it's going to affect demand for any Tesla product?
No need to worry about the Bolt's impact on Model 3 demand. The Model 3 is a much, much better car.
But it probably won't be too long before LG Chem inks some deals with Model 3 competitors (Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc) to get an affordable electric compact luxury sedan to compete with the Model 3.
As for the Bolt, it's a niche car for now due to it's price. If it was priced at $20-25k, then it would be a different story. But even at it's current price and with the Fed and State incentives, I'm fairly confident GM can put together some very compelling 2 year lease offers. People can get a carpool-sticker car and save money on gas.
This is the official release from GM: Bolt EV Offers 238 Miles of Range
So the Bolt will have at most 238 miles of range and cost at least $37,500. Do we know for a fact that the base model will have 238 miles of range?
Model 3 will have at least 215 miles of range.
So the Bolt will have at most 238 miles of range and cost at least $37,500. Do we know for a fact that the base model will have 238 miles of range?
Model 3 will have at least 215 miles of range.
Bolt's MSRP (before tax incentives) is $37,500 according to their website (very bottom of 2017 Bolt EV: All-Electric Vehicle | Chevrolet).
Correction: news release by GM (Bolt EV Offers 238 Miles of Range) says MSRP will be below $37,500 (before tax incentives).
Huh? The link says that is the EPA-estimated range. It never said "at most" - where did you get that from? Or where did you get that it doesn't apply to the base model? Do you have another link?
The Model 3 is an engineering goal, nothing that has been achieved in production. Just like the folding seats in the X were a goal but never achieved.
Just to speculate a bit on this tweet. Today TSLA traded roughly 3.6mm (3,583,187) shares. If there were 3mm shares recalled today, there will be roughly 3mm reduction in short interest and roughly 3mm shares that need to be bought over the next three days, i.e. by this Friday. I would love to hear from members who are professionally involved in trading and are familiar with nuts and bolts of the process, but for my (engineer) eye this spells major trouble for people trying to close short positions.
Probably not, But
A) it shows that the mainstream automakers are getting into long range electrics, and this may effect Tesla 3-5 years down the road.
B) It sets a benchmark. Many believe it is a low benchmark, but it will likely be at least on time, reliable, serviceable and have the functions of a normal car. This is something Tesla will be held to.
C) It may sway some buyers who: Don't like the Model 3 Interior (if they keep it similar to the Prototype), live far away from service centers, or, Don't expect to receive a model three for a couple to a few years due to location of not wanting to pre-order.
I have no special insight into this. The tweet from your source made me do a double-take because I too had noticed that the 3mm shares supposedly recalled today was roughly equivalent to today's total trading volume! It really sounds too good to be true, but assuming the source is reliable and our collective understanding of recall dynamics is accurate, shorts are in for a world of doo-doo this week.
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