Whatever - you assume that the only difference in HW3 is the FSD upgrade. Anyway, since the car's safety features already exist in AP2x cars, and already meet the highest testing standards, you have no case for a free upgrade. Suggest you go find another ambulance to chase.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Whatever - you assume that the only difference in HW3 is the FSD upgrade. Anyway, since the car's safety features already exist in AP2x cars, and already meet the highest testing standards, you have no case for a free upgrade. Suggest you go find another ambulance to chase.
I think that's actually a fairly reasonable assumption, although I can see how faster processing might improve ordinary AP response. But then it might not either depending on implementation. Until I see some evidence of an improvement to AP with HW3 I remain very sceptical.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I don't assume it. I directly quote Elon Musk telling us that.
Not sure why you think he's lying about it.
Except, I do, because I paid for FSD and they explicitly said people who paid for FSD get the new computer free.
So once again you appear to have no idea you're talking about.
...what?
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Well, we can all speculate on what will or won't come to pass. Really, at this point anyone's guess is as good as mine. I must say though that as somebody that purchased FSD at the point of sale I find the advancements in Nav on Autopilot and other features encouraging that FSD is on the way and perhaps further in development than I would have originally thought.
Since I plan on having this car for 10 years or more I think the chances are pretty darn good that I will get FSD before I need another car...hopefully LONG before! Like next year maybe? No? Ok, two years then.
Dan
Since I plan on having this car for 10 years or more I think the chances are pretty darn good that I will get FSD before I need another car...hopefully LONG before! Like next year maybe? No? Ok, two years then.
Dan
From the Q32018 call:
(source)
He said "parts". They built whole cars to test the HW3 parts. Do you still think the full HW3 suite is just the HW3 computer?
Of course the HW3 computer will deliver FSD functionality in an AP2.0 car, but that does not mean that there are no other AP-related changes in new HW3 cars.
You paid for a feature which includes a hardware component that did not come with your car. How is that free?
Pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about here.
PS. Ambulance Chasing
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Perhaps, but I look at it a little differently. I think that they will release true "put in a destination and take a nap" Full Self Driving in the next two years. I don't believe anyone else will be even close. Sure, some companies will have commercial fleets operating in specific areas that have been carefully mapped, but nobody will be near ready to release a mass market system capable of FSD anywhere in the country.
When they do that I expect the option to triple in price...or more. They could ask anything they want and people will line up to pay it. Just think of the implications. Ride sharing, independence for those with disabilities, the end of the need for multiple car families. The possibilities are endless.
Dan
Last edited:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yes- because manufacturing the car with the new part is literally the only way to validate a new MFG process to insure new off the line cars are easily and functionally built with HW3 off the line.
They explain that in the very thing you quote
YOUR OWN QUOTE said:
That's why they build the whole car even though "only" the HW3 computer parts are changing.
They need to insure the actual process by which it's installed in a new car works for the new part and everything functions as expected right off the line.
That's how MFG validation is done.
They don't just grab some random used car off the street and see if the part fits and then just say "Sure go ahead and start building 7,000 cars a week like that!"
Your grasping at straws is getting both sadder and funnier with each post.
Except for where they specifically said that was literally the only change.
Elon Musk said:
So once again your claim is directly contradicted by Tesla themselves.
no, as I just showed you twice- with direct quotes from Tesla, you're factually wrong and increasingly desperate to pretend you're not.
Keeping digging the hole though man- you might get to China by the time Gigafactory 3 is online
LOL - are you trying to school me on how validation is done? That is really cute. Have you ever even set foot in a factory? Was it a factory tour?
Seriously, Tesla are well known for continuous improvement. Do you honestly think they build full cars for every component change?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You've made it pretty clear you need it, so yeah
That is really cute. Have you ever even set foot in a factory? Was it a factory tour?
No, but I've given such tours.
You'd probably benefit from one. And for companies with higher MFG volume than Tesla FWIW.
When it's a component as significant as this? Absolutely they do.
You can tell- because you literally quoted them saying they did
I'ts baffling how Tesla themselves repeatedly, directly, contradicts you- and somehow you still think you're right.
You've made it pretty clear you need it, so yeah
No, but I've given such tours.
You'd probably benefit from one. And for companies with higher MFG volume than Tesla FWIW.
Happy to take up the offer, always wanted to see how they bottle ketchup. Can't imagine much in the way of (product) CI in that environment though?
Yes, I literally quoted their Q3 update.
I guess you find many things baffling. Tesla were talking specifically about HW3 in the Q3 results, which is both the most recent and most specific public update that they have given on HW3.
Why do you think the HW3 APE is more significant than any other component? Do you think they built whole validation cars every time they updated the Model S door handles?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
yes- and it literally said you were wrong
Again.
At least you're consistent
About your repeatedly debunked claims? Yup.
Right.
And they said they built entire cars to validate that hardware.
Same as what I said.
So it's extra weird you suggested they did not do that, when you're the one who originally quoted them telling you they did.
So do you not read what you quote, or do you not understand what you quote?
(I suppose to be fair, it could be both)
No- Because unlike door handles, many systems in the car rely on, communicate with, and use the computer, so they need to test and validate a slew of items (and over a significant period of time and driving conditions), not just "Do the handles present and open the door"
Again I'm baffled you need this explained to you.
Elon's public statements don't contradict what Pete Bannon said in the Q3 call. Just you keep on debunkin' tho!
Hmm, I am starting to think that too much debunkin' makes the mind go soft. System validation would have begun a long time before there was an assembly part, almost certainly before the silicon was final. The part has to work with all AP2.0 and AP2.5 cars as a retrofit, and validation of that is probably ongoing right now. No need to build new cars for testing when a more realistic test would be to pull random cars from inventory.
However, if you were planning to make more fundamental changes, such as sensors or drivetrain, as well as the APE, then of course you would build validation cars.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You seem to be doing a fine job of debunking your own claims with Tesla quotes
Bannon didn't say new sensors were needed either.
And Elon explicitly said they were not
Sure.
And they also need to validate the part once it is final
MFG companies usually have multiple levels of pre-ship-level hardware designations, and specific amounts/types/methods of validation required for each one.
And then of course the real ship-level HW needs its own.
Which is what they did in building a complete HW3 test car for S, X, and 3.
Except that's also completely wrong.
Because they have to validate retrofits work and that it works on new manufacturing too.
So they'd do both.
Also if you aren't.
Which is what happened.
because that's literally what Tesla said happened
Tesla said they build validation cars.
Tesla said HW3 involves no change to the sensor suite.
How you are still getting this wrong is simply remarkable.
So Elon has confirmed that HW3 is backwards compatible with HW2/2.5. And...?
This whole quote is talking specifically about Hardware 3:
When people put an "s" after the word "part", it means that there is more than one part. The word we use to describe this is "plural". Remember, Pete is still talking about HW3. If there was only one part then he would have said "validate fit and finish of the part".
Is that right? Mind. Blown.
If you were reading very carefully (I know, it is hard when there are lots of big words), you might also have noticed that Pete makes a point to use "qualification" when talking about the actual HW3 board and line, and "validation" when talking about integration.
But only if it's HW3, right? Not if it's a door handle or an MCU or a lighted sunvisor or an upgraded rear-view camera or ....
Really? Tesla have officially announced that a new 2019 car rolling off the line with HW3 will have no hardware changes over a 2018 car, other than the new APE?
If you don't provide an exact quote specifying this then we'll have to assume you are busy eating crow...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
And he said no change to sensor suite
I quoted him doing it.
Yet you still keep thinking, for literally no reason, he's lying.
Are you hard of reading or something?
Once again you appear to have not fully read your own quote
YOUR OWN QUOTE said:
He mentions the two different parts right in your own quote
So you being confused, again, by simple English is simply hilarious.
They're not replacing just the chip they're also replacing the board the chip goes on.
Neither of which have anything to do with changing the sensor suite
Which, again, Elon said they are not doing
As evidenced, repeatedly, by every single direct quote from Tesla.
How you're STILL getting this wrong is simply amazing.
Are you talking to yourself now?
Because I've had to point out, repeatedly, you not bothering to understand the very words you yourself think support your claim, but explicitly contradict your claim.
There's a lot of you being clueless to unpack there.
For one- Tesla doesn't build using the traditional model year system.
The year on the car basically changes with calendar year- and what comes "in" a model year can change quite a bit throughout the year.
For example two different 2018 model 3s built at different times can have different seats, suspensions, glass, and more.
So your basic question demonstrates yet more utter ignorance of how Tesla MFG works at all.
For another- Elon has explicitly said the HW3 upgrade does not change the sensor suite
As you've been told roughly 10 times already in this very thread, and keep pretending you didn't see, or perhaps more likely just don't understand.
If you don't provide an exact quote specifying this then we'll have to assume you are busy eating crow...
You've been ASSuming all thread, despite repeatedly being shown exact quotes that you're wrong.
Why quit while you're behind, right?
So here you go AGAIN-
Elon Musk on Twitter
Elon Musk said:
You're wrong. Elon explicitly says you're wrong. Accept it and move on with your life.
or don't- your posts are hilarious in their constantly flailing around desperate to look less dumb than the last one
Are you still furiously debunkin'? Because you seem to have overdone it a bit here. Nowhere have I said that Elon is lying. Nowhere.
See, now you agree that there are partS! We are getting somewhere!
You just have to expand your mind a tiny bit further: from a validation perspective, the qualified APE is one part.
Just let that sink in for a moment.
Now go find one single direct quote from Tesla. Not Elon, from Tesla. Shouldn't be hard, because you keep referencing "every single direct quote from Tesla"!
Internet poster displaying utter ignorance accuses another of being utterly ignorant. World continues to turn.
Guess I will have to spell it out after all. Bold caps FTW!
J1mbo said:
So, where's the direct quote (Tesla or Elon) to support your opinion that only one part will change in a CAR BUILT IN 2019 rolling off the line with HW3?
For another- Elon has explicitly said the HW3 upgrade does not change the sensor suite
As you've been told roughly 10 times already in this very thread, and keep pretending you didn't see, or perhaps more likely just don't understand.
You've been ASSuming all thread, despite repeatedly being shown exact quotes that you're wrong.
Why quit while you're behind, right?
So here you go AGAIN-
Elon Musk on Twitter
Elon Musk said:
You're wrong. Elon explicitly says you're wrong. Accept it and move on with your life.
Ah, and it was all going so well. But why did you explicitly misquote Elon?
"No change to sensors" is still true if HW3 MS & MX get the Selfie cam, or other hardware to confirm driver alertness.
As I said before, Elon's public statements don't contradict what Pete Bannon said in the Q3 call.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except the numerous times you claimed his statement might not be true, but otherwise sure
Not really, since you don't seem to understand the conversation you're failing to usefully participate in.
Nobody ever argued if the APE upgrade was more than 1 physical piece. Nobody.
YOU tried to argue it was more than just a computer upgrade.
Despite Tesla repeatedly and directly telling you you're wrong.
I realize with each post you show greater and greater ignorance of the company- but Elon is the CEO. (and at the time he made that tweet also chairman of the board of directors)
A statement from Elon regarding the company is a statement from Tesla
Yes, but enough about you....
It's the elon quote I just put in the last post. And numerous ones before that.
Are you late stage alzheimers or something? That'd explain a LOT!
I didn't... In fact I included a direct link to his entire statement.
VERY late stage I guess
So first- this is the model 3 forum last I checked. The model 3 already HAS that camera.
Second- Cameras are sensors. So if there's no sensor change it means no camera change.
Nobody said they did.
The problem is you keep reading imaginary things that Bannon didn't actually say, and which Elon directly contradicts.
Elon Musk said:
Which part do you still not understand?
He lies about many things. You just need to go back and look at his many statement about near term features that Tesla is going to release. He sells hope and hype which you are buying. He does it because it has worked out great for him. I'm not even sure that Tesla would exists if were not for all of Musk's lying. Many people refer an exciting story instead of thoughtful intention of truthfulness. It elected a US president, after all.
Similar threads
