Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[banned-66611]

This. Many ICE cars made now shut off motor at idle, so they are sitting silently at intersections until they begin moving. I suspect singling out EVs comes from auto industry lobby and is more of a shot at Tesla than a true attempt to address the issue.

The sound of the engine starting is a bit of a give away.

Anyway the claim is wrong, the law sets a minimum volume level for all vehicles, that's all. Quiet fossils have to meet it too but I don't think any are quiet enough to need speakers, except hybrids of course.

 

[tomas]

That is absolute, total balderdash. First, US law only pertains to EVs and hybrids. Second, an ICE car with off at idle sits at intersection. Sight impaired person starts into corner. By the time it starts and is audible, no difference to ev.

 

[tccartier]

Unm. No

 

[tomas]

Unm. No

Ok, then attach link to statute. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

 

[tccartier]

Ok, then attach link to statute. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

A statute for what? I merely answered the question at the heading of this thread that said should ev's make artificial sounds at low speeds. My opinion is no they should not. I think it's silly and unnecessary.

 

[drtimhill]

The statue specifically applies to "setting minimum sound requirements for hybrid and electric vehicles" (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 49 CFR Part 571 and 585). So it doesnt apply to ICE cars that stop their engines, or (so far as I can tell) HFC cars either. Which is stupid. The NHTSA should know better.

 

[banned-66611]

That is absolute, total balderdash. First, US law only pertains to EVs and hybrids. Second, an ICE car with off at idle sits at intersection. Sight impaired person starts into corner. By the time it starts and is audible, no difference to ev.

Here is the relevant directive: EUR-Lex - 32017R1576 - EN - EUR-Lex

"This Annex sets out measures concerning the Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System (AVAS) for hybrid electric and pure electric vehicles."

"The sound shall be similar to the sound of a vehicle of the same category equipped with an internal combustion engine."

"The vehicle manufacturer may provide for the possibility for the driver to select from among different sounds, which shall comply with the requirements laid down in paragraph 6.2.5 of UNECE Regulation No 138."

These are a requirement to get a type approval certificate.

Next time check which jurisdiction is being discussed and then use Google.

 

[Migizi]

My external speaker was unplugged the day I brought the car home and it's going to stay that way.

 

[banned-66611]

My external speaker was unplugged the day I brought the car home and it's going to stay that way.

Fortunately around here that would be an MOT failure and your car would not be allowed on the road. Also if you had an accident and that modification was discovered you would be looking at jail time.

 

[Migizi]

Fortunately around here that would be an MOT failure and your car would not be allowed on the road. Also if you had an accident and that modification was discovered you would be looking at jail time.

I guess its a damn good thing I don't have to worry about that here

 

[tomas]

Here is the relevant directive: EUR-Lex - 32017R1576 - EN - EUR-Lex

"This Annex sets out measures concerning the Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System (AVAS) for hybrid electric and pure electric vehicles."

"The sound shall be similar to the sound of a vehicle of the same category equipped with an internal combustion engine."

"The vehicle manufacturer may provide for the possibility for the driver to select from among different sounds, which shall comply with the requirements laid down in paragraph 6.2.5 of UNECE Regulation No 138."

These are a requirement to get a type approval certificate.

Next time check which jurisdiction is being discussed and then use Google.

Wait. Is that not exactly what I said? First paragraph. Pertains to EVs and hybrids. Plus I was clear I was talking about US law, and you just demonstrated EU law is same target.

 

[tccartier]

I guess its a damn good thing I don't have to worry about that here

Well you can feel free to test that theory if you like. What many often confuse is while you are free to do what you want with your vehicle it does not free you from the consequences of your actions. Don't believe me leave your speaker unplugged and go run into and injure or kill a pedestrian with an ambulance chasing lawyer nearby. And see what happens when it is discovered that you defeated a safety system on your car that may have prevented that accident.

 

[banned-66611]

Wait. Is that not exactly what I said? First paragraph. Pertains to EVs and hybrids. Plus I was clear I was talking about US law, and you just demonstrated EU law is same target.

You jumped into the conversation in the middle. arnis was saying it didn't apply to PHEVs (oddly specific) and we were talking about it being illegal in EU countries.

In fact it seems that the update is not available in the EU, confirming this. I'm very glad.

 

[banned-66611]

Well you can feel free to test that theory if you like. What many often confuse is while you are free to do what you want with your vehicle it does not free you from the consequences of your actions. Don't believe me leave your speaker unplugged and go run into and injure or kill a pedestrian with an ambulance chasing lawyer nearby. And see what happens when it is discovered that you defeated a safety system on your car that may have prevented that accident.

That actually happened in Japan a couple of years ago. Someone with a Leaf hit a pedestrian and was prosecuted for disabling the pedestrian warning sound.

 

[daniel]

I may have posted this before, but if so it was over a year ago: My Zap Xebra had a back-up beeper. Similar to, but not nearly as loud as, the one on heavy construction equipment and some trucks. The car also had an unused toggle switch on the dashboard. I had the beeper wired into the switch. I allowed the car to beep when backing out of parking spaces. I would love to have that feature on my Model 3, switchable.

I also had a wooden whistle that sounded like a train horn. That characteristic multi-tone sound. There were times when I blew the whistle when coming up behind pedestrians in parking lots. It was quite loud if you blew hard enough. Pedestrians never so much as turned to look when I blew it. Life here is so relaxed that if there are pedestrians, I just stop and let them take their time.

 

[banned-66611]

I've noticed that some EVs have the reverse beeps. Wouldn't want a car with those.

 

[arnis]

I coded Leaf's external speaker to STFU when driving forward but left reverse beep on by default (can be switched off with OEM button).
Way too many accidents happen in reverse and people literally do NOT move away when I back out of parking spaces.
Therefore let it beep by default. Though sometimes I like to be stealth and switch that off too.

Forward sound makes little sense. EV's have HVAC and mostly fans are running. These can be heard at the front of the vehicle if vehicle is moving really slow in parking lots.

 

[arnis]

The AVAS shall automatically generate a sound in the minimum range of vehicle speed from start up to approximately 20 km/h and during reversing. Where the vehicle is equipped with an internal combustion engine that is in operation within the vehicle speed range defined above, the AVAS shall not generate a sound.

Sometimes it is so AVAS no need?

Foolish.
As is undefinable "hybrid electric".

I know some Japanese vehicles that are more quieter than HVAC on my car.

I also know that some reporters have asked blind people about EVs and replies from blind people were... "we can't hear them in traffic".
And they meant EVs with AVAS.

 

[banned-66611]

The AVAS shall automatically generate a sound in the minimum range of vehicle speed from start up to approximately 20 km/h and during reversing. Where the vehicle is equipped with an internal combustion engine that is in operation within the vehicle speed range defined above, the AVAS shall not generate a sound.

Sometimes it is so AVAS no need?

No, it means that the AVAS can turn itself off when the fossil engine is running.

 

[daniel]

I've noticed that some EVs have the reverse beeps. Wouldn't want a car with those.

When backing out of parking spaces, it was really nice to have. Definitely should be switchable so it's only on when needed.