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Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

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And secondly has anyone actually listened in an urban grocery store parking lot? It is quite loud. Hard to hear anything.
I tell you what though, you will definitely hear any Kio Niro EV within 200 ft in reverse. That thing is LOUD! The forward noise is tolerable, but the reverse wakes up the whole neighborhood. It's seriously a show-stopper for an otherwise fine vehicle.

 
It is EV hate. If such a regulation was necessary or useful then it would apply to all vehicles. Many conventional automobiles are very very near as quiet as an EV. The tires are the loudest sound from most vehicles passing my house.

And secondly has anyone actually listened in an urban grocery store parking lot? It is quite loud. Hard to hear anything.

teslas are louder than conventional cars in Europe imho if they drive above 5-10km/h. They are just very heavy.
 
Yes, I read that. In fact, it was to that post that I was responding. What I’m saying is that deleting a silent PWS sound takes a lot less time and effort than crawling under your car and reconnecting a wiring harness. And it’s a lot less noticeably executed, too. Deleting a silent sound file leaves little observable evidence of its having once been there.

I am pretty sure the PWS sound does not go away. The custom sound (or no sound) plays in addition to the standard PWS sound, not replace it.
 
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The key issue with EV sound is what the implication is when the streets of London are jammed with EVs. Will that sound be tolerable. I am hoping that the EV leads to quieter cities. Not a replacement of a loud low pitch hum with a loud high pitch hum. This could be a disaster.

Car and Driver said:
NHTSA will require automakers to install external speakers that emit simple tones whenever the car is stationary, in reverse, or traveling up to 19 mph (30 km/h was used as the cutoff). By “simple,” we mean that NHTSA doesn’t want automakers replicating the sounds of internal-combustion engines. Rather, they’re calling for two or four tones between 315 and 5000 hertz, separated in one-third-octave intervals.

Volume must also increase by three decibels with each 6-mph increase in speed. Under electric power, these cars must emit between 47 and 67 decibels (the decibel curve as calibrated with an A contour, which best replicates how the human ear perceives differences in sound intensity). For those concerned with noise pollution and the mating habits of tree squirrels—for real, NHTSA conducted a wildlife analysis—fear not. The agency claims that if hybrids and EVs reach 50 percent of all registered vehicles by 2035—a highly unlikely scenario even by polling-institute standards—such sounds would increase ambient noise in urban and nonurban areas by less than 1 decibel each. “Differences in sound levels of less than 3 decibels are generally not noticeable to humans,” the agency said.

When compared against ambient noise in cities (factored at 55 decibels), EVs will sound only 1.1 to 2.7 decibels louder than the surrounding environment. This would seem to contradict what the agency just said above, except the “increase is nonetheless expected to make the vehicles more detectable to intent listeners using vehicle sound to guide roadway crossing.” Outside city centers, where 35 decibels is considered to be the average ambient-noise level, a new EV or hybrid would be 3.5 to 6.6 decibels louder (and 10.4 decibels louder when stopped). NHTSA also points out that the sounds will be 0.3 t0 4.4 decibels quieter than a car relying only on internal combustion.
If you ever find yourself saying or thinking "But have they thought of ...", they almost certainly have.
 
The key issue with EV sound is what the implication is when the streets of London are jammed with EVs. Will that sound be tolerable. I am hoping that the EV leads to quieter cities. Not a replacement of a loud low pitch hum with a loud high pitch hum. This could be a disaster.

The first time I saw a Model Y at a supercharger was the first time I heard Tesla's sound. My thought was if the law requires the car make a sound Tesla did a pretty good job of making something that wasn't obnoxious. It actually had the reaction with me that the sound should make, which was "what's that?" followed by looking around for the source.
 
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"The agency claims that if hybrids and EVs reach 50 percent of all registered vehicles by 2035—a highly unlikely scenario even by polling-institute standards—such sounds would increase ambient noise in urban and nonurban areas by less than 1 decibel each. “Differences in sound levels of less than 3 decibels are generally not noticeable to humans,” the agency said."

If you ever find yourself saying or thinking "But have they thought of ...", they almost certainly have.
But this makes no sense long-term .. the logic is:
  1. Pedestrians cannot hear an EV over the noise form ICE cars.
  2. Therefore we make the EV make enough noise to be heard over the noise of ICE cars.
  3. When EVs replace ICE cars, they will be making as much noise as ICE cars (or actually slightly more).
  4. At which point, there is no reason for EVs to be making any noise at all, since we have banished all the noisy ICE cars.
  5. BUT WAIT, all the *existing* EVs are making noise now, so we CANNOT dial-down new EVs noise as the new quiet EVs would not be heard over the noise of the older noise-generating EVs.
  6. So we have to keep noise making FOREVER.
  7. So we have managed to defeat one of the benefits of EVs .. reduced noise pollution.
Fabulous .. our tax dollars at work again!!! (bangs head on deck)
 
But this makes no sense long-term .. the logic is:
  1. Pedestrians cannot hear an EV over the noise form ICE cars.
  2. Therefore we make the EV make enough noise to be heard over the noise of ICE cars.
  3. When EVs replace ICE cars, they will be making as much noise as ICE cars (or actually slightly more).
  4. At which point, there is no reason for EVs to be making any noise at all, since we have banished all the noisy ICE cars.
  5. BUT WAIT, all the *existing* EVs are making noise now, so we CANNOT dial-down new EVs noise as the new quiet EVs would not be heard over the noise of the older noise-generating EVs.
  6. So we have to keep noise making FOREVER.
  7. So we have managed to defeat one of the benefits of EVs .. reduced noise pollution.
Fabulous .. our tax dollars at work again!!! (bangs head on deck)
I have always understood the EV noise to be for when you're driving with few or no other cars around. If you're in traffic, it doesn't exactly matter. The times when I have pedestrians walk in front of my Model S are always in parking lots or on our downtown Plaza with tourists not paying attention. In those cases, noise would alert them to the presence of my singular vehicle.

Also, there's this:
NHTSA also points out that the sounds will be 0.3 t0 4.4 decibels quieter than a car relying only on internal combustion.
 
What we need is a user-switchable backup beeper (for backing out of blind parking spaces; my Zap Xebra had this since I had the unused third dashboard switch wired into the backup beeper circuit, and it was very useful) and a user-switchable noisemaker for driving in parking lots and similar places. Something very noticeable but not too jarring.
 
Have you read this thread? It'll be switched off by most participants, and probably most owners.

How about geo-fenced to those locations?

Yes, I've been reading the thread. My understanding was that turning the sound off would be illegal and not supported by the car makers. My position is that there should be a switch in the car, as original equipment, that a driver could turn on or off according to the situation. My Zap Xebra didn't come with this, and was not required by law to have it. It had a back-up beeper and sounded when the car was in reverse and I had it wired through an unused switch on the dashboard so I could turn it off but still allow it to operate when I wanted it. (The car was such a rinky-dink construction that they actually had a switch on the dashboard that was not connected to anything!)

I would love to be able to turn on a beeper in my Model 3 for parking lots. But I want to be the one who chooses when to sound it. I don't want a car that makes noise any time I'm going slow.
 
funnily enough I've noticed a spaceshippy sound when I slam the Y into reverse, then the other day as I was crossing our street to go to a neighbour's house, I heard it again as this white Hyundai pulled away from the curb [1]. Exact same sound (only this time in Korean)

What's really odd is that I didn't think Hyundai were selling EVs in Texas yet


[1] - I actually had to look up how to spell that!
 
I just had a "horrible" experience ;)
I was walking in a covered public parking when I saw coming towards me a Porsche. I was wondering if it were a Taycan or a Panamera, guessing that it was a Taycan.
The car turned left before reaching me. Still having a doubt, I heard a typical engine noise at a low regime. thus I concluded it was a Panamera.
Strange, I said to myself...
After a while the car re-appeared and I saw that it was really a taycan.

My conclusion: how bad is to make it make a noise... one of the pleasure of the EV is the silence.

More, let me say that it is against EV development. If all EVs make noice, they appear not to be EVs to "normal" people...