Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[MorrisonHiker]

There are visually impaired humans who use echolocation to navigate the world.

One of these days, I'm sure a company will have a portable "Autopilot" system that will allow the blind to get around. Yes, seeing eye dogs can assist with that now, but I can imagine a day when a system with cameras and ultrasonic sensors will be small enough that it can be worn. Perhaps it will be backpack-sized at first, then miniaturized and integrated into a helmet or hat and eventually into a visor (such as Geordi La Forge's) or pair of "sunglasses". While such a system won't allow the blind to truly see, it will be able to give them cues to allow them to navigate the world safely.

 

[Altes]

Bill requiring minimum auto sound levels expected - AutoWeek Magazine

I find silly the idea that cars need a minimum sound level. To be sure, noise is helpful for the blind, and I have (stupidly) come to rely on it when crossing a street, but I've also been surprised many times by engine-in-back buses and bicycles. I think the solution is not to mandate noise levels but to educate people to look both ways before crossing. For the blind we need better crosswalk technology, such as the beeping walk signals Santa Monica uses.

Damn Half the fun of an EV is sneaking right up behind idiots walking in the middle of the parking lot lane and then LAYING on the horn.....

 

[swengl]

I hope that they make the "noisemaker" on the CyberTruck something you can disable: I want to be able to drive through the woods without disturbing the wildlife. Call it "Stealth" mode and put it as an option on the touchscreen. Or better yet, make it location-centric and auto-enable it when you leave a paved road.

 

[mk677]

only if the noise sounds like this

 

[daniel]

only if the noise sounds like this

I think that would be a pleasant sound the first 20 or 30 times. After that it would start to become annoying, and eventually I'd be begging for the Chinese water torture instead.

This one I never get tired of, though:

 

[tccartier]

Yes but then gas cars should also have a noise emitter

Problem is once all cars have them or all vehicles have them then they just become noise pollution and will be ignored for the most part just like those ridiculous car alarms we had a while back when everybody's car was chirping and beeping and nobody cared.

Working in a mining environment everything that moves all day around me has backup alarms, and Horn signals for movement for or aft, and Horn signals for starting a vehicle basically noise for movement in any direction and I can tell you that nobody pays attention to it, there are too many coming from too many different directions that they just become noise pollution.

 

[roblab]

I'll be the party pooper here. There are a myriad of other noises out in the world besides ICE. In many cases, the noise is tire and wind noise, not engine noise. Sometimes wildlife can make a lot of noise. Moving objects making a sound are more safe, which is why we have reverse alerts on large trucks, forklifts, etc. We happened to have a natural (and unnatural) sound emitting from ICE cars to date, and we don't anymore. It's not about drowning out other noises, it's about keeping people safe from deadly moving objects.

It costs me literally nothing to have some noise come from my car, and it may save a life or minimize the suffering of someone else. I really don't see the debate.

I see two examples. I like to drive completely silently through a woods, listening to birds and other natural noises and am blessed that I live where I CAN drive quietly. And again, I would not wish to be in a rush hour or downtown situation with hundreds of cars all "boop-beeping" at each other. I LIKE my near silent EV, but I also agree, most of the nose I emit is from my tires on the road.

The "cost" is my loss of near quiet. To me, that's a lot. If I had a sound emitter, I'd disable it and gladly pay any fine for doing so. In CA, it's illegal to drive without a front license plate, but ten percent of all cars here don't wear one. I'll pay the fine if I choose to lose it.

 

[JRP3]

We are at a point where technology should enable vehicles to know when a person is near and a.) send a targeted beam of sound to them and b.) avoid hitting them no matter what. Constant mandatory noise is useless.

 

[ohmman]

send a targeted beam of sound to them

Or vaporize them with a laser.

 

[FordMME]

I muffled my noise maker in the MME. It was relatively easy to do. You can still hear the backup chimes but the volume has been reduced by maybe 2/3rds. Driving forward, the low speed noise is pretty much inaudible now. I can't say that the noise really bothered me, but I just wanted to make my car as quiet as possible. That's one of the reasons I bought an EV. And as others have noted, with all the other static already out there, it seems like making cars louder will eventually be self-defeating.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Is it illegal or a liability to disable this noise maker if it factory installed/produced after the September 2020 date?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Is it illegal or a liability to disable this noise maker if it factory installed/produced after the September 2020 date?

First a disclaimer I'm not a lawyer, but there's a discussion over in the Prius forums that pointed out the law:
"S8 Prohibition on altering the sound of a vehicle subject to this standard. No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may:

(a) Disable, alter, replace or modify any element of a vehicle installed as original equipment for purposes of complying with this Standard..."
Disabling the prius prime noise maker.
Of course, not sure if an individual modifying their own car qualifies as "subject to the authority" of the NHTSA, but my impression is it's up to the states to enforce anyways (for example at inspections and fix-it tickets).

In terms of liability, that thread points it out, definitely there is possible liability. If you get into an accident where the noisemaker may have played a possible role and the person finds out you did this modification, they can definitely sue you for it.

 

[AmokTime]

I didn‘t read all 77 pages of responses in this thread, so maybe someone has said this already: you can upload a sound file, right? Maybe a sound file of silence? Then you don’t have to disconnect the speaker. For Teslas, anyway. Others may not allow sound file uploads.

 

[jboy210]

I didn‘t read all 77 pages of responses in this thread, so maybe someone has said this already: you can upload a sound file, right? Maybe a sound file of silence? Then you don’t have to disconnect the speaker. For Teslas, anyway. Others may not allow sound file uploads.

Read on post above yours for the potential liability issues with causing inaudible sound to be played.

 

[wdolson]

Last fall when I had to go to California I heard the noisemaker on the Model Y at some superchargers. It sounds a bit like a 1950s SF movie UFO and it's not very loud. It's noticeable, but about the same volume as the tire noise.

I've been watching pedestrians lately as I approach them and almost always someone turns around from just the tire noise. I do think that a little louder noise might be a good idea under some conditions like leaving a parking garage onto a downtown street, but most of the time the tire noise is enough. I wish the law was crafted to give the driver the option to turn on the system, make it a bit louder, and they could ensure compliance by making the driver more liable if they have an accident because the sound maker wasn't on.

 

[AmokTime]

Read on post above yours for the potential liability issues with causing inaudible sound to be played.

Yes, I read that. In fact, it was to that post that I was responding. What I’m saying is that deleting a silent PWS sound takes a lot less time and effort than crawling under your car and reconnecting a wiring harness. And it’s a lot less noticeably executed, too. Deleting a silent sound file leaves little observable evidence of its having once been there.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

The real problem would be in stop and go traffic on the interstate or in the wilderness. My id4 makes the noise and in stop and go I can see how, in the future, with enough EVs making those UFO noise, it will bring more noise to the interstate and state and national parks. Now sure they can remedy this by simply use GPS to exclude areas, but then I think it will make a market where people will build GPS spoofer to kill the noise permanently.

I do get the point of helping the visually impaired, but there got to be a better way than imposing millions of EVs noise into the surrounding environment.

 

[ohmman]

Yes, I read that. In fact, it was to that post that I was responding. What I’m saying is that deleting a silent PWS sound takes a lot less time and effort than crawling under your car and reconnecting a wiring harness. And it’s a lot less noticeably executed, too. Deleting a silent sound file leaves little observable evidence of its having once been there.

Well, aside from forum posts detailing precisely how you plan to do it.

 

[Sixth]

Bill requiring minimum auto sound levels expected - AutoWeek Magazine

I find silly the idea that cars need a minimum sound level. To be sure, noise is helpful for the blind, and I have (stupidly) come to rely on it when crossing a street, but I've also been surprised many times by engine-in-back buses and bicycles. I think the solution is not to mandate noise levels but to educate people to look both ways before crossing. For the blind we need better crosswalk technology, such as the beeping walk signals Santa Monica uses.

Raise of hands anyone, how many here have a group of people walking in the middle of a parking lot. Unknowingly, they have an EV behind them patiently waiting for them to move to the side without resorting to honking.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Raise of hands anyone, how many here have a group of people walking in the middle of a parking lot. Unknowingly, they have an EV behind them patiently waiting for them to move to the side without resorting to honking.

This is exactly what prompted me to create the WASP Pedestrian horn. (see sig). People say that pedestrians can hear tire noise, but not in my experience with the Model S. When clueless people in front of me finally realize there's a silent car creeping up behind them, they're usually quite startled. And using my regular horn would just be too obnoxious.