Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[Skotty]

If hyperbole, poor taste. If serious, well, I won't go there.

Serious. Forcing Japanese Americans to live in internment camps was a far greater injustice, but nonetheless analogous. Both are state action against a particular class fueled by prejudice, fear, and politicians hoping to gain by standing against an unpopular group.

 

[RAW84]

This is a hate based law and nothing more. This is made evident by that it singles out a type of car instead of focusing on the perceived problem (which itself is highly debatable). It's analogous to forcing Japanese Americans to live in internment camps during World War II. Thinly based reasoning used to vilify and punish a particular class of product or society hated by those in power.

Wait what? LMAO

Sometimes TMC can feel like the twilight zone. It's targeted at EV's cuz that's where the issue is most prevalent. No sense adding another thing for ICE manufacturers to test. People are in here suggesting a better course would be legislation restricting earphone or cellphone use whilst walking down the street...I hope these comments are tongue-in-cheek. I don't need another legal avenue to be harassed by the police.

I don't like the legislation, and I'm certainly glad I got my car before it was enacted, but y'all in here acting like someone killed your cat.

 

[jackbowers]

TrekCore.com

My personal favorite is TOS Bridge 8 - Power Up but given the importance of this issue it may require an in-depth evaluation.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Agree with everyone, this is a silly requirement...especially the fact that it only applies to EVs. I walk the streets in New York City almost daily, and sometimes I imagine what it would be like if all the cars made no sound (engine sounds...not much you can do about the honking!), it would be a lot more quiet! We shouldn't go backwards and add more sound to our environment.

The best solution to this alleged "problem" that I have seen (heard) is on the Chevy Volt. There is a function on the steering column (maybe part of the wiper stalk) that allows the driver to make a brief "chirp" outside the car. It's much less obtrusive than using the horn, but it gets the point across to unaware pedestrians. I've scared the crap out of a few people in parking garages that don't hear me behind them (never mind they've decided to walk down the middle of the lane), and a manually activated chirp would've been a nice alternative. I would imagine Tesla could build this in as an automatic function as well when the car detects someone nearby or in front of the car.

That sounds nice, I would like that. I don't want to travel at walking pace in parking lots with clueless pedestrians. The horn will scare the crap out of them and opening the window and telling them to move is likely to get me assaulted. A little chirp sounds like a nice compromise. Sounds like we can't have that, though.

 

[David99]

What a terrible idea. The number of lives saved or accidents that will be prevented is completely made up as there is no proof that noise would have prevented these accidents in the first place.
I don't think it is completely useless, but the situations where it could help are few and it's a high price to pay (noise emitted by all EVs all the time). Look at the law about certain vehicles that have to emit a loud beeping sound when they are in reverse. Some situations are definitely safer, but in a place where lots of trucks are, it becomes just a huge annoyance and there is no effect. Same on a construction site with lots of heavy machines driving around. Constant beeping. Attention is only increased if something stands out. If something is abundant, we filter it out, it's lost in the 'ocean of noise'.

The one thing that makes this rule semi acceptable is that it is only required at speeds below 18 mph. That covers maybe 0.5% of all traffic.

 

[krnshh]

FWIW, thought I should mention it here. A couple of weeks back, our cat came under our car and died (atleast I reckon that's what happ). It was outside the garage in park mode and I may have given it a bit of a 'jump start' but there wasn't that much speeding (10-20km?) and I stopped after tenths of a second. The cat must have followed the people sitting in the car and gone and lied right under the car. Upon seeing the car move, he must have hit his head on the top in an attempt to run. In an ICE, I doubt it would have wanted to go under the car with the noise that a car would make.

 

[snellenr]

Cliff Claven and the Squeaky Shoes - YouTube

 

[NigelM]

Ridiculous! Would make me feel like a cow with a bell around the neck.

View attachment 79563

Q: Why do cows wear bells?
A: Because their horns don't work!

 

[caps04]

I hope it only applies to when the car is moving and not when it's on otherwise say goodbye to Camper mode where the car makes the annoying engine sound all night. Oh, and there will be a very very small hit to the range too, no? Depending on the amplification and the number of speakers.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Alright, it's clear this law is stupid and also a thinly veiled anti-EV tactic. So, the real question now is how do we go about petitioning it to be repealed?

Targeted letters and emails at the people who have sway over these laws seems best. Who are those people?

Citing the ridiculousness of the "red flag laws" mentioned earlier (thanks for that!) would be a good start.

Also, a media campaign calling out this ruling would also probably help. Anyone want to tip off Jalopnik?

 

[Johann Koeber]

I just hope the EU doesn't adopt that particular kind of stupid.

I support your hope.

How stupid is this noise thing.

How about prohibiting cars to emit noise above a certain level. That would make more sense.

 

[tomas]

The one thing that makes this rule semi acceptable is that it is only required at speeds below 18 mph. That covers maybe 0.5% of all traffic.

Disagree. I live in city and 70% of my driving time (not distance, time) is spent on city streets going stop sign to stop sign to stop light almost every block... so, I spend most of that time under 18 MPH. Not a problem for suburban or rural or highway drivers, but will be a major annoyance for city drivers.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, a media campaign calling out this ruling would also probably help. Anyone want to tip off Jalopnik?

I think media campaign backfires. It's stupid to us, but I can just imagine how the nitwits on the evening news will report it.

 

[NigelM]

I hope it only applies to when the car is moving and not when it's on otherwise say goodbye to Camper mode where the car makes the annoying engine sound all night.

The regulation specifically proposed that the car makes noise when "stationary but active" as an equivalent state to "idling" on an ICE. Now whether that means, "stationary but in D" for a Tesla or whether it means when the car is "awake" is open to interpretation. The relevant bits:

It is NHTSA's position that the scenario in which the vehicle is stationary, but its starting system is activated[SUP] [85] [/SUP]is a critical operating scenario because the definition of “alert sound” contained in the PSEA requires that a pedestrian be able to locate a nearby vehicle that is running; it is the agency's position that including this scenario satisfies that provision of the PSEA. Furthermore, sound provided by idling ICE vehicles is essential to assisting visually-impaired pedestrians in making safe travel decisions. Sounds made by vehicles that are stationary but activated address collisions between pedestrians and HVs and EVs starting from a stopped position.

This condition is commonly referred to as an “idling” vehicle for vehicles with internal combustion engines. However, the term “idle” technically refers to an engine state, not a vehicle state, and has no relevance to electric motors. The description used here “stationary but activated” means the vehicle is not moving, but its starting system is activated.

P.S. not only potentially an end to camper mode but possibly an end to drive-in-movie watching also.

 

[neroden]

Ugh. Gross. Now how do we move to get it repealed? It is so, so stupid.

 

[evme]

FWIW, thought I should mention it here. A couple of weeks back, our cat came under our car and died (atleast I reckon that's what happ). It was outside the garage in park mode and I may have given it a bit of a 'jump start' but there wasn't that much speeding (10-20km?) and I stopped after tenths of a second. The cat must have followed the people sitting in the car and gone and lied right under the car. Upon seeing the car move, he must have hit his head on the top in an attempt to run. In an ICE, I doubt it would have wanted to go under the car with the noise that a car would make.

Sorry for the loss of your cat, but I doubt noise would have made a difference. If a cat can ride a roomba I doubt the noise of a car would discourage a cat any less. They get scared of sudden sounds, passive sounds are less of an issue. Cats also like things that generate heat. Overall, it is better not to let a cat outside unattended.

 

[NigelM]

TrekCore.com

My personal favorite is TOS Bridge 8 - Power Up but given the importance of this issue it may require an in-depth evaluation.

Yet another hole in this regulation: it requires the noise to be clearly identifiable as coming from a motor vehicle. This implies that a) it will need to resemble an ICE idling or b) be a standard noise that is adopted by all manufacturers.

 

[HeavyAaron]

I hope it only applies to when the car is moving and not when it's on otherwise say goodbye to Camper mode where the car makes the annoying engine sound all night. Oh, and there will be a very very small hit to the range too, no? Depending on the amplification and the number of speakers.

Obviously not speaking to this regulation, but to how my vehicle is presently implemented the sound does stop when the vehicle speed hits 0 even when the vehicle is in D. This is most noticeable in a drive-through, because the window is down and I am travelling at low speeds. When I get to the drive-through window and stop the sound stops, and I am happy.

 

[JohnQ]

Furthermore, sound provided by idling ICE vehicles is essential to assisting visually-impaired pedestrians in making safe travel decisions.

Per Nigel's quote, and tomas' point, the outcome of a media campaign asking to scrap this regulation would be that EV drivers are insensitive to visually impaired pedestrians. The best option would be to ask for an amendment that requires all vehicles to emit a minimum sound level. Then it might collapse under its own scope.

 

[Electric1]

Yet another example of a safety blanket in which to suffocate. Or government is clearly here to help Robin Hood noise pollution from some cars to others. We no have FMVSS to limit minimum and maximum noise. What a superb use of our precious tax dollars.

 

[MsElectric]

There's an easy solution to this. Tesla can add this in and we could all "learn" about where the speaker wire or connection for this is...