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Should I avoid cars with 85kwh packs?
- Thread starter flynnstone
- Start date
Note that if Tesla reset everything to factory defaults, which is likely, it will take several discharge/charging cycles to know what the indicated range really is. The best way to know the condition of the battery is to tell Tesla they need to give you a printout of the battery test (good luck getting that), or have someone that owns ScanMyTesla connect to the car you are looking at and see what the cell voltage is when the SOC of the battery pack is at 100%. You want to see a cell voltage of 4.2 volts per cell (or close to it, like 4.18 volts). If the cell voltage is close to 4.1 voltage the battery pack has been capped and you should avoid the car.
Just keep in mind that a car (regardless of battery size) that is not capped today can be capped tomorrow by Tesla.
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
So, you think they would park your trade-in and remove the battery or disassemble it versus just take your trade in and sell it themselves or wholesale it to someone that will sell it again?
Hi Alkikiki!!!
Well, there are all sorts of possibilities, but say they giv an above street value trade in that is acceptable to three bad battery holders AND the cobble together one good pack from those, which they give to a fourth bad battery holder as a warranty replacement-maybe that is a net gain. They could easily have an algorithm somewhere like that- Xbad pack-> one warranty pack, which only probably has until the 8 year from original purchase date, unless there is an additional year or so for the replacement.
Just guessing though.
Thank you very much
FURY
Well, there are all sorts of possibilities, but say they giv an above street value trade in that is acceptable to three bad battery holders AND the cobble together one good pack from those, which they give to a fourth bad battery holder as a warranty replacement-maybe that is a net gain. They could easily have an algorithm somewhere like that- Xbad pack-> one warranty pack, which only probably has until the 8 year from original purchase date, unless there is an additional year or so for the replacement.
Just guessing though.
Thank you very much
FURY
It's a roll of the dice, so only you can decide if it's a risk you want to take--which I guess is true for any used car. There are a few things you want to look for:
- Range at 100% - 248 is about where my car was pre-update, then dropped to ~220 overnight, so that sounds OK
- Can you actually charge to 100% - many affected folks can no longer charge to 100%--the car stops somewhere in the mid-90s. You should confirm they charged to 100% and not just 90% and the extrapolated what 100% would be
- Supercharger speed at low SoC - confirm charging speed at low SOC (10-15%) under reasonable circumstances (warm pack, unpaired charger, etc). I would want to see charging speeds of ~90kW in that scenario--some affected folks are seeing speeds capped at much lower than that.
@swegman i 100% spot on with his assessment. I'm in the same position. My car has been capped and limited and downgraded in many ways and it affects my every day use negatively. Slower charging both at home and at the supercharger. Range taken away. Excsessive battery thermal management wastes energy and reduces range even more. Car shut down with 5 miles left (which it has never done before) reducing range even further. AC charging often stops before reaching it's set point.
All these things add up and make my car far less usable.
The BMS checks the battery for various conditions and decides when and by how much it limits the capacity and performance. At this point not all 85 cars are affected, but that is irrelevant because the underlying issues is true for all early battery cells. That means sooner or later all those car will be hit by the same limitations. If you are buying an old Tesla now that isn't affected, you will be down the line for sure. I would stay away from any Tesla other than 100/Long Range S/X or Model 3. Personally I'm not going to give Tesla any of my money until they stand behind their promise and warranty and fix my car.
All these things add up and make my car far less usable.
The BMS checks the battery for various conditions and decides when and by how much it limits the capacity and performance. At this point not all 85 cars are affected, but that is irrelevant because the underlying issues is true for all early battery cells. That means sooner or later all those car will be hit by the same limitations. If you are buying an old Tesla now that isn't affected, you will be down the line for sure. I would stay away from any Tesla other than 100/Long Range S/X or Model 3. Personally I'm not going to give Tesla any of my money until they stand behind their promise and warranty and fix my car.
Is a late 2014 P85 car considered an old 85 pack? I would think it’s one of the newest or most current 85 batteries around
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
If you are on a budget I would still stay away from the old 85s. It looks like a good deal, but it isn't once you get hit by #batterygate. A low price isn't automatically a good deal.
If you get hit. My S85 is from 2014, has just over 100k kms and nominal full pack is still 75,2 kWh, and recent supercharging I was getting max rate of 118kw.
beatle
Active Member
Remember, regen has nothing to do with battery degradation. It is temperature based.
As another anecdotal data point, my car has 53k and charges to 251. I think supercharging speeds could be a little faster, but I can still manage over 100kw for a bit if my SoC is under 20%. This is on the latest software.
My advice is to check the individual car's stats before buying as not all 85kwh packs were affected.
As another anecdotal data point, my car has 53k and charges to 251. I think supercharging speeds could be a little faster, but I can still manage over 100kw for a bit if my SoC is under 20%. This is on the latest software.
My advice is to check the individual car's stats before buying as not all 85kwh packs were affected.
Hi Beatle!
Irrespective of temperature, my S85G has had a significant change in the last several weeks, regarding region. There is no regen occurring for some time after startup, which never hapened since I bought the 85S in 2014, ever, same environmental conditions. There is also a cap on regen, which I have not seen exceeded, which also NEVER occured since purchase. Whilst there may be , IN PART, some TESLA prohibited and/or capped regen, related to temperature, those are both very recent changes and, coupled with the other knee capping of the battery charge rates and maximum, to render the car a much different vehicle than the one I purchased.
BTW, service said they could remotely test my vehicle and said the battery was good, including the regeneration, even though the car did not move a millimeter...
Thank you very much
FURY
Irrespective of temperature, my S85G has had a significant change in the last several weeks, regarding region. There is no regen occurring for some time after startup, which never hapened since I bought the 85S in 2014, ever, same environmental conditions. There is also a cap on regen, which I have not seen exceeded, which also NEVER occured since purchase. Whilst there may be , IN PART, some TESLA prohibited and/or capped regen, related to temperature, those are both very recent changes and, coupled with the other knee capping of the battery charge rates and maximum, to render the car a much different vehicle than the one I purchased.
BTW, service said they could remotely test my vehicle and said the battery was good, including the regeneration, even though the car did not move a millimeter...
Thank you very much
FURY
Still on 2019.16.
That charge rate was after driving almost 300kms.. in subzero C degrees. Battery was around 30C when I arrived at the supercharger.
Scan my tesla. At the android app store page theres a link to where you can buy needed adapters. Worth every penny.
beatle
Active Member
The environmental conditions themselves may be the same as other years, but the temperature threshold for full regen is different. It appears to be different for ALL cars, regardless of their battery age/condition. I'm not saying that there aren't other things happening WRT how Tesla is remotely managing our batteries - I'm saying that charging speeds and voltage caps are independent of regen behavior.
+1 to this. I've been able to track regen behavior and temperature consistently with it.
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