Should I get a Model 3 Performance? Charging concerns.

[DrGriz]

Didn't see you mention it, so thought I'd bring it up. The 30% up to $1000 max tax credit has been reinstated. So when you are considering the cost of having work done, keep that in mind.

I would agree with those who recommend level II home charging if it is at all possible.

 

[brkaus]

Does anyone know if what I said is not true? I want to make sure we're not calculating 80% twice.
Is it 80% of 20V = 15V or 80% of 15V = 12V?

A Tesla plugged into a 20a outlet will charge at 80% of 20A -> 16A. (or 12A on a 15A outlet).

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Unless you’re willing to cough up the money to get a 240v circuit for charging, not worth it IMO. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is the ability to charge at home. If your specific use-case makes it difficult for a regular daily routine, forget about it.

Plus, a Performance is only good at upper SoCs. If you’re going to be regularly under 60% SoC, I’d suggest just getting a regular 3 or an LR. Power drop off is dramatic at lower SoCs.

State of Charge matters but so does heat in the battery. If they weren’t monitoring Battery temps and “Max Discharge” values then that graph is almost irrelevant.

There can be as much as 60 HP difference between a fully optimized battery and a cold one. And by cold I mean 32 C and not just 32 F or below.

You need at least 52 C to get optimal performance from a Model 3 Performance car.

Here is a rolling dyno graph comparing different “Max Discharge” values. Note that I can get a 430 KW “Max Discharge” value with 63% SOC or with 100% SOC. Both of those will have similar performance.

 

[ElectricIAC]

State of Charge matters but so does heat in the battery. If they weren’t monitoring Battery temps and “Max Discharge” values then that graph is almost irrelevant.

There can be as much as 60 HP difference between a fully optimized battery and a cold one. And by cold I mean 32 C and not just 32 F or below.

You need at least 52 C to get optimal performance from a Model 3 Performance car.

Here is a rolling dyno graph comparing different “Max Discharge” values. Note that I can get a 430 KW “Max Discharge” value with 63% SOC or with 100% SOC. Both of those will have similar performance.

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This explains a lot.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

It sounds like your level 2 home and work charging options are limited. It can work but it will take effort on your part.

You can extend your range by driving slower. Also 18” wheels and tires can give you 10%-12% better efficiency and even better performance too.

I would rather spend $3k on wheels and tires than $4k-$7k on a 14-50 outlet.

Charging for a short period of time at a medium SOC shouldn’t deteriorate the battery much. Maybe just stop at a Supercharger for 5 minutes every few days? With some efficient driving then even a standard wall outlet might be manageable.

I will say that the Model 3 Performance is a fantastic sports car. The acceleration is addicting. I have done almost FORTY 11.3x 1/4 mile passes this summer. The dual motor car just can’t compare to that even with the boost pack.

 

[ElectricIAC]

It sounds like your level 2 home and work charging options are limited. It can work but it will take effort on your part.

You can extend your range by driving slower. Also 18” wheels and tires can give you 10%-12% better efficiency and even better performance too.

I would rather spend $3k on wheels and tires than $4k-$7k on a 14-50 outlet.

Charging for a short period of time at a medium SOC shouldn’t deteriorate the battery much. Maybe just stop at a Supercharger for 5 minutes every few days? With some efficient driving then even a standard wall outlet might be manageable.

I will say that the Model 3 Performance is a fantastic sports car. The acceleration is addicting. I have done almost FORTY 11.3x 1/4 mile passes this summer. The dual motor car just can’t compare to that even with the boost pack.
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Lightweight wheels and tires make a bigger difference than some folks think. Even more if they’re aerodynamic.

Almost anything is better than the brittle boat anchors Tesla is sending these out with.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Lightweight wheels and tires make a bigger difference than some folks think. Even more if they’re aerodynamic.

Almost anything is better than the brittle boat anchors Tesla is sending these out with.

18” wheels and PS4S tires certainly make my 12 mile highway commute efficient.

2022 Model 3 Performance:

 

[ElectricIAC]

18” wheels and PS4S tires certainly make my 12 mile highway commute efficient.

2022 Model 3 Performance:
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And makes the ride more comfy!

 

[mpgxsvcd]

And makes the ride more comfy!

Definitely. I don’t worry about pot holes at all now. Honestly, the UberTurbines and Pirelli tires are just about the worst combination I can think of for performance, efficiency, and durability. They also cost a FORTUNE. I HATE those specific tires and wheels with a passion.

 

[tm1v2]

@rentien You said "quotes" plural but only mentioned one electrician. Have you gotten quotes or estimates from multiple electricians yet?

Our 240V charging circuit install (years ago) was also fairly involved (though not as much as yours). I got 6 quotes and there was a pretty wide range, especially with paying the electrician to handle permitting, which some seemed oddly reluctant to do (all were licensed electricians). The most expensive estimate was something like 70%-100% more than the cheapest.

 

[rentien]

I've gotten I think three quotes with a wide range.

1. 4-7K
2. 5-8K?
3. One general one like this: "Typical costs for single family residential installations are usually between $1,800 to $2,800, depending on your electrical environment." <-- this last one seems general and they might raise the price when they see how involved it is. I'm still talking with them.

Thanks for the tip. I"ll keep shopping around to see how much lower I can get the quotes.

 

[DrGriz]

I've gotten I think three quotes with a wide range.

1. 4-7K
2. 5-8K?
3. One general one like this: "Typical costs for single family residential installations are usually between $1,800 to $2,800, depending on your electrical environment." <-- this last one seems general and they might raise the price when they see how involved it is. I'm still talking with them.

Thanks for the tip. I"ll keep shopping around to see how much lower I can get the quotes.

When we did this two years ago, we had the dirt guys (excavators/landscapers) dig the trench, drop in conduit (PVC pipe) and backfill. It took a half a day, but only that long because they accidentally hit our separate drainfield pipe and had to fix it which added an hour. The electrician had nothing to do with it. About 100 feet from house to garage.

Electrician came a month or two later, when it was time for them to hook everything up, and pulled cable through the conduit.

It's not clear how long your run is or what there is between your condo and the garage, and I think that's one reason you are getting such broad estimates. They are basically wild ass guesses. It appears they haven't yet looked at the actual details of the job (I might be wrong about that. Please let us know).

I would get separate quotes for the jobs, myself. You don't need a Tesla approved electrician to dig a trench and backfill.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’m sure a healthy portion of those quotes is Tesla tax.

 

[DrGriz]

I’m sure a healthy portion of those quotes is Tesla tax.

Depending on where you are, that's a thing for sure. And I sure wouldn't bring it up with the excavators. Tell them you're just bringing 220 service out to the garage.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Depending on where you are, that's a thing for sure. And I sure wouldn't bring it up with the excavators. Tell them you're just bringing 220 service out to the garage.

Now that’s thinking with your head but I’d wager that the great majority of Tesla owners will just pay what they’re told and not push back.

 

[brkaus]

I’m sure a healthy portion of those quotes is Tesla tax.

Maybe, but it’s a big job. And lots of unknowns if digging. Big rock here, sprinkler system there, water main, landscaping once done, etc.

Definitely would need a sub-panel in the garage. How is the garage finished? Do wires need to be fished? Who knows how much work that is needed in the main panel. Upgrade needed? Wire fishing? Drywall repair?

Permits, California prices, and the list goes on.

 

[rentien]

Maybe, but it’s a big job. And lots of unknowns if digging. Big rock here, sprinkler system there, water main, landscaping once done, etc.

Definitely would need a sub-panel in the garage. How is the garage finished? Do wires need to be fished? Who knows how much work that is needed in the main panel. Upgrade needed? Wire fishing? Drywall repair?

Permits, California prices, and the list goes on.

maybe i should say i'm getting a Bolt.

 

[ElectricIAC]

maybe i should say i'm getting a Bolt.

Then they’ll call it a fire hazard and refuse the job.

 

[rentien]

Then they’ll call it a fire hazard and refuse the job.

Sounds about right for things in my life

 

[Huskyfan]

You will be lucky to pull 9-10A consistently (less if there’s considerable voltage sag) and it may still trip the breaker when the compressor for the fridge kicks on.

4-7K is outrageous to install a 240 and wall connector.

Are you saying you don’t have the room or capacity on your panel? If you have the capacity on your panel, can you not just put another circuit breaker in and run the conduit to where you want the plug? I ran my own conduit to where i wanted the plug, installed the plug and and put a 40 amp circuit breaker into the panel. Followed the applicable building codes. Not hard to do.