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Should I keep my 2013 P85 CPO Deposit?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Rahul, Jun 9, 2016.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Today's return of the S60 announcement kind of changes the equation for me. Could use some opinions. I have a deposit down for a 2013 CPO P85 with 45K miles for $55.4K with this config:

    VIN P07639
    85 kWh Performance Model S
    Green Metallic Paint
    Body Color Roof
    21" Grey Wheels
    Black Performance Interior
    Carbon Fiber Décor
    Carbon Fiber Spoiler
    Supercharger Enabled
    Dual Chargers
    Tech Package
    Smart Air Suspension
    Ultra High Fidelity Sound

    Now I'm looking at a brand new S60 for $72.2K (includes incentives, referral bonus) with this config:

    Midnight Silver Metallic Paint
    Body Color Roof
    21" Grey Turbine Wheels
    Black Next Generation Seats
    Dark Ash Wood Décor
    Black Alcantara Headliner
    Autopilot Convenience Features
    Premium Upgrades Package

    For ~$17K I'd be giving up:

    ~55 mi range (P85 ~265mi vs S60 ~210mi)
    0-60 4.2sec vs 5.5sec
    Smart Air Suspension
    Ultra High Fidelity Sound
    Carbon Fiber Décor
    Carbon Fiber Spoiler
    Dual Chargers

    However I'd be getting:

    A car with 0 miles, brand new warranty
    AutoPilot
    Parking Sensors
    Folding Mirrors
    Fog Lights
    HEPA Premium Air Filters
    All the other goodies / enhancements in build quality since VIN 07639

    The things I really think I care about are the range and acceleration and don't really think I need AutoPilot since we rarely drive on the freeway but I do hear it's so cool.

    So anyone want to opine on which way to go on this?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Wshowell

    Wshowell Member

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    Here's another thing you'll be gaining that I think is a big deal. If you buy CPO you get a new warranty but that warranty cannot be extended. If you buy new you have 4 years and 50K miles to decide if you want to extend the warranty. I would also opt out on the wheels. I see full sets of those often on Craigslist for under $1800 and the new style rims are pretty sweet anyway. Finally, I think that convenience package is way overpriced and an bit gimmicky (totally my opinion). The HEPA filter for me would be a waste. I don't have hay fever, the air I breathe comes right off the Pacific Ocean and frankly I hate my wife's power hatch on her Pilot. I override it 100% of the time. The lighting stuff is meh too and the $3k savings I would apply to the Pano roof and then the 8 year warranty as the reliability comes into play. All this is very personal to taste of course.
     
  3. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    If you don't want/need the better acceleration, I would go for the new 60.
     
  4. Seesaw

    Seesaw Member

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    #4 Seesaw, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
    And I think in a few years time the new 60 will be worth more, so the TCO difference will be less than 17k.

    Say you average 10k miles a year. In 3 years time the CPO will be 6 years old with 75k miles. The new one will be 3 years old with 30k miles and with the refresh front and AP.
     
  5. JPUConn

    JPUConn Member

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    I did the same for my CPO that I pick up later today and am moving forward with the CPO with the expectation to keep it until we are closer to the 3 arriving and crossing my fingers that I didn't choose entirely wrong on the cost of ownership.

    For your 60 config i'd drop the 21's and add awd. Can easily change the wheels and dual motor in my opinion will hold better resale than not.
     
  6. Camera-Cruiser

    Camera-Cruiser Fully Charged

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    Well if you go new, you are doing exactly what Tesla wants, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    One thing to remember, is that the older 85, while quicker, and I love it, will not get 265 rates miles with 43K miles, unless they installed a new battery. I'd guess 245 to 252, but it's $18K less.

    Drop the air on on the new car, and you will save $ and have a quieter car too.

    You may also want to call around and get insurance quotes too. The older model might save you some serious coin too.
     
  7. CLLACAB

    CLLACAB Member

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    I am partial to acceleration and having the extra range.....but with that said...one thing to consider is that the new car will take an immediate and significant hit to value as soon as you drive it away. The CPO will only lose a small amount of value each year. And you can always buy a new one later if that is the direction you want to go...Personally, I am a big believer in the CPO's - let someone else take the first year hit to value.
     
  8. Boourns

    Boourns Member

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    This seems to be a question of speed/range vs. comfort. The P85 would be faster, to a bit farther, and have more of the sports car vibe. (Also it's green!). The new S60 would be quieter, have AP, etc. Presuming the price is OK for your budget either way, what is more important to you?

    Sounds like that is your answer.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    This is great feedback guys!

    I love the look of the 21" Grey Turbines but it reduces range and does raise my on-going cost. Maybe it might behoove me to check out TST 19"s or something else. I was avoiding the pano since I live in AZ. I never use the sunroof, and I have a convertible when I do want open air. Also, I swear it lets in heat in my friend's S even though a lot of people claim it doesn't.

    This is the one aspect I can't figure out and probably the most important. If the P85 has degraded down to a ~250mi range and the new one is expected to be around 210mi, we're only really talking ~40 miles. And of course if I chose to later, I can unlock the 75kwh capability. Right now almost 95% of our driving is in town < 50 miles, but occasionally would like to be able to road trip from PHX to LA, San Diego, or Las Vegas. Regardless of battery size I think I would have to stop 1 or 2 times to each destination. Is it going to make a difference if I have a 60 or 85?

    This is the mindset I have in regards to resale/TCO value. The CPO I'm getting has already lost a bulk of its value and should diminish slower now. Also the 60s don't seem to hold resale as well in general.

    Decisions, decisions!

    #firstworldproblems
     
  10. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    AP is something you need to try out so you will know for sure. Ask for a 48 hour loaner and try it out on some of your highways and busy higher speed streets. Autosteer may not be useful for you but I bet you'd appreciate TACC.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. Vrrooom

    Vrrooom Member

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    It's not really an apples to apples comparison. Go price out a 60 with similar features as the car you're buying as a CPO. It will cost north of $80k. That is ~$25k without the tax incentive and still close to $20k with. Keep in mind your taxes will be higher, insurance will likely be higher, and your depreciation on a new 60 will be theoretically higher than a certified pre-owned P85, where the initial owner took the bulk of the hit. If you take the average of that initial hit at 17% (average being 15-20%) that is another $13k. You're looking at a potential $30k cost differential between getting a 60 (presumably only for AP and some build improvements) vs.. a CPO P85. I just picked up a CPO 2013 and the car is quiet, rock solid, finish is great. Nothing to really complain about here.

    IMO-
    Parking sensors= not needed; you have a big and fairly high-res backup camera!
    Folding mirrors= what's the point unless you park in a really tight parking area, where door dings would be a larger concern to me
    Fog lights= not needed, plus I believe some 2013 MS come with them with the tech package, which yours seems to include

    Not saying the above is applicable to everyone, but a different viewpoint for you to consider.
     
  12. CLLACAB

    CLLACAB Member

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    I would take the mileage results with a grain of salt. You should ask your DS to charge the car to either 90 or 100 percent and see what the P85 is getting. Every car is different. Our P85 charges to 234-235 miles at 90 percent.
     
  13. Vrrooom

    Vrrooom Member

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    Agreed. My P85 charges to about 235 to 90% as well.
     
  14. johnnyS

    johnnyS Member

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    On road trips the extra rated miles will make a big difference. With the 60 you will need to spend a lot more time charging since you will need to charge to 90% or higher to make the next supercharger with a little buffer. The charging rate slows to a crawl as the battery gets full. In May we just completed a 3000 mile road trip. My comfort level to make the next supercharger was frequently to charge to more than 200 rated miles. The annual depreciation should be less on the CPO P85.
     
  15. vdiv

    vdiv Chief Grump

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    Counteroffer on the CPO. Make them an offer they can't refuse :) I know they may laugh or tell you they don't do that, but what do you have to lose?
     
  16. Zybd1201

    Zybd1201 Member

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    You answered your own question here:

    " The things I really think I care about are the range and acceleration and don't really think I need AutoPilot since we rarely drive on the freeway but I do hear it's so cool. "

    If you want a car that is fun and accelerates fast there will be quite a difference between the 60 and the p85!

    The autopilot was a big deal for me. But if you enjoy driving your car it seems silly to give up the faster, more fun driving car to get a slower, less fun driving car just so you don't have to drive it while in it!

    I recently changed from a CPO to a new build but in a very different scenario from an older 2016 S90 to a brand new 2016 S90 but based one what you stated are the things you care about I would go with the CPO car.

    With regards to "value" I have the same disease. For some reason when I'm buying 100k car I care about $1k. In reality, when we're buying these cars we should just buy whatever makes us happy and is within our financial means.
     
  17. Zextraterrestrial

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    personally I'd pick the CPO but some people like autopilot. It's neat but I would not want it if I had the choice.
    Better range + accel. I thought a S85 felt slow, I can only imagine a 60 would feel even slower.
     
  18. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    Haha these situations are always tough for me. I probably have the financial means to be into a 90D but I'd rather save the ~$35-40K just because I can.
     
  19. Model S M.D.

    Model S M.D. Ludicrous Radiologist

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    Agree with @Beryl

    You need an extended loaner to see if AP works for you. I even use auto steer in town, especially at stop lights (when behind another car so I can check my phone/relax) and definitely in bumper to bumper traffic. At the very least TACC will be immensely useful to you.

    I'd go new 60 for AP and the ability to software OTA upgrade to 75 kWh later if you find out you need the extra range. I really think new stripped down S70/S60 with AP beats any CPO without AP regardless of any other options it has.

    Good luck!!!
     
    • Like x 2
  20. cab

    cab Member

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    Rahul, I'm in the same boat almost as you. I was looking at a CPO P85 in the high 50s, and then yesterday's announcement hit. Like you I vale the performance and range, but can certainly see the attraction of the new S60. My price delta is even tighter, as I optioned the 60 with the minimum options I would likel accept : blue paint, leather and AP. It ends up just $6500 more than the fairly loaded P85.

    A buddy of mine who has an 85D says he would probably do the new 2016, and he can appreciate performance as he traded in his C7 Vette for the 85D...of course his 85D is as quick as the P85 so easy for him to say...LOL!

    I put together a spreadsheet comparing features and there are a number of other things the new S60 has too like parking sensors, the AP safety features (in addition to the Adaptive cruise/steer that gets all the press), LED lights, the new front fascia, next gen seats, and more.

    I keep coming back to the basics though: range and power vs. new and autopilot...hmmm.
     

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