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Should Tesla allow a refund of FSD for those who bought it with EAP?

KyleDay

Active Member
Oct 29, 2016
1,325
2,905
AZ
EAP had/has summon.

I mostly agree with OP’s thinking here. I am one in the same boat. However, tesla can claim some features (which are lame) specific to FSD which were delivered (like traffic light and stop sign detection and FSD visualizations). Congrats - we got nothing of value.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,900
13,039
California
I agree it’s a full-on scam at this point, particularly for those that bought in back in 2016, but I don’t see any reasonable path to a refund. All that would do is make a customer service mess for them and trade some unhappy people for different unhappy people.

For better or worse, you own it.
 

oktane

Active Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,716
1,766
USA
I agree it’s a full-on scam at this point, particularly for those that bought in back in 2016, but I don’t see any reasonable path to a refund. All that would do is make a customer service mess for them and trade some unhappy people for different unhappy people.

For better or worse, you own it.

If you recall, there was a class action lawsuit a few years ago. Members of the class got $500 I believe. If you excluded yourself, you could potentially sue and win for a refund in small claims court.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,595
3,632
Colorado, USA
Everyone who bought cars with an advertised power output, 0-60 time, Superchage rate & regen braking level would like to have a talk. At least you knew when you opted for it that it wasn't a real thing at the time of purchase. Imagine paying a LOT of money for all of that stuff I mentioned & then have it taken away years later w/o warning, explanation or recourse.

tl;dr Tesla has an abysmal track record on the customer service front established over years of eff ups. I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
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AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,592
4,108
Northern California
I agree it’s a full-on scam at this point, particularly for those that bought in back in 2016, but I don’t see any reasonable path to a refund. All that would do is make a customer service mess for them and trade some unhappy people for different unhappy people.

For better or worse, you own it.
Not only a scam but one Tesla is supposedly going to charge more for in the future! So hurry up and buy it today!

Seriously I still can’t believe people are paying 10k for it. It’s been 5 years! They’re not as close and Elon believes or would have people believe they are to true FSD.
 

TresLA

Member
Jul 15, 2018
79
70
L.A.
Apparently I'm the minority view (in this thread), but I'm fine with having purchased both EAP & FSD capability back in 2018. I knew it was investing in the future, without a promised timeline. Even back then, I thought we could be replacing our (first) Tesla with another before FSD came to fruition and still made the $8k purchase anyway. I wish I could prove it now, but from the little I had worked in AI, computer vision, and neural networks long ago, I've always felt true FSD on the same roads as human drivers was not close. I don't feel gypped because we knew what we were paying for: investing in Tesla's work towards that goal. Elon isn't my god, nor do I trust his time estimates (ergo aka "Elon time"), but I still see products delivered and am pretty amazed/happy with what we have. I'm reminded of this every time I get in another vehicle and notice how far ahead Tesla still is. #My2¢
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,267
11,613
Riverside Co. CA
Apparently I'm the minority view (in this thread), but I'm fine with having purchased both EAP & FSD capability back in 2018. I knew it was investing in the future, without a promised timeline. Even back then, I thought we could be replacing our (first) Tesla with another before FSD came to fruition and still made the $8k purchase anyway. I wish I could prove it now, but from the little I had worked in AI, computer vision, and neural networks long ago, I've always felt true FSD on the same roads as human drivers was not close. I don't feel gypped because we knew what we were paying for: investing in Tesla's work towards that goal. Elon isn't my god, nor do I trust his time estimates (ergo aka "Elon time"), but I still see products delivered and am pretty amazed/happy with what we have. I'm reminded of this every time I get in another vehicle and notice how far ahead Tesla still is. #My2¢

Pretty much anyone who is happy / satisfied with their purchase of FSD (for whatever reason they are satisfied with it) is pretty much WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY over having this discussion, so all you are left with are people who arent, posting about it.

Not that I am saying anything at all about people who arent happy, btw. I am just saying that, there will be no "discussion" on this topic here, as that ship has long since sailed.
 
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rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
2,952
2,062
Orange County, CA
If you recall, there was a class action lawsuit a few years ago. Members of the class got $500 I believe. If you excluded yourself, you could potentially sue and win for a refund in small claims court.
They got between $20 and (IIRC) $800. Average much closer to the low end. Lawyers did a lot better.

And remember, this is a settlement - the case did not go to trial on the merits of the claim. Today's situation is a bit different than the facts and circumstances of the case you refer to.

And yes, Small Claims Court is a potential option, assuming you opted out of mandatory arbitration within 30 days of purchase.
 

oktane

Active Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,716
1,766
USA
They got between $20 and (IIRC) $800. Average much closer to the low end. Lawyers did a lot better.

And remember, this is a settlement - the case did not go to trial on the merits of the claim. Today's situation is a bit different than the facts and circumstances of the case you refer to.

And yes, Small Claims Court is a potential option, assuming you opted out of mandatory arbitration within 30 days of purchase.

Do new purchase contracts require arbitration?
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,180
2,718
Seattle, WA
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,180
2,718
Seattle, WA
They got between $20 and (IIRC) $800. Average much closer to the low end. Lawyers did a lot better.
As a lawyer, I'd think you'd understand the benefits of a class action pretty well. Yes, individuals get less, but that's because they had to put no energy in. You tell people to not sue as they'll never recover the costs of a lawsuit. $800 is a lot more than zero, and it serves as a deterrent to companies acting badly because it applies to all class members, not only the ones that sue directly.

I'd think you'd find companies like Telsa trying to force arbitration on people pretty clear evidence that Class Actions work, and they want to force people to litigate individually as it's much less efficient for the consumer.

And lawyers getting paid a lot? They did a lot of work. They sued on behalf of 100,000 people. If they get $10M, that's only $100 per class member, which is a pretty cheap way to sue someone.

Which is why people starting to use arbitration against companies is awesome. It's just as cheap to arbitrate as go to small claims, as Tesla per their own agreement is required to pay your arbitration costs. So we can each individually go to arbitration and cost Tesla a lot of money. People should not feel that they have no options if they did not opt out of arbitration- they actually have a pretty easy, cheap option.

And remember, this is a settlement - the case did not go to trial on the merits of the claim. Today's situation is a bit different than the facts and circumstances of the case you refer to.
Yet you never expand what the differences are...

As a lawyer, why are you constantly trying to push people away from using the legal system?
 
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