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Should Tesla be worried about the Taycan?
- Thread starter Bill Price
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's a Porsche problem so much as an EV problem, and an infrastructure problem that tracks could easily remedy if they wanted. In fact, that would be some super-easy marketing juju for Porsche, to approach track owners and offer to install free/discounted DCFCs.
Also, for all the marketing and boy-racer image, some vanishingly small percentage of Porsche drivers (or any sports car drivers for that matter) actually put their cars on a track.
The battery still beats everyone, that's not the problem. The driving dynamics are quite modest vs a corresponding Porsche, but the majority of the driving public wouldn't know the difference, so then that's also not the problem.
The real problems are the interior, the build quality and the absolutely ATROCIOUS service experience.
Of those, the easiest one to solve, I'm suspecting, would be updating the interiors. But that would mean they'd actually have to work with OEM partners and give up on the "we can make everything cheaper in-house" mentality. I think the opportunity to do that has also largely passed.
I don't know that I'm a representative example but I tried a Model S yet again the other day, after having read so many good things about the "Raven" builds. Yes, a somewhat better suspension, with the same low-grade interior and some bonus understeer (I haven't felt much of that in any Tesla before, that was quite the surprise). It left me with the same impression I had before: "I'd rather get a Model 3 over this".
Appreciate the kind words. Now run me through a Model X vs Etron comparison: price, features, everything.
I'll get the range argument out of the way for you: Driving it in the same fashion, the X90D loaner I drove for a while had exactly the same real-world range as my current eTron (240-ish miles).
Yes, thank you, that's what I've been using to figure my way around the charging situation. Between ABRP, PlugShare and EA's own app, it seems to be enough to find one's way around.
It feels a bit like in Tesla's early days, but it is really coming along.
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The Porsche Taycan looks like an excellent vehicle that will satisfy those looking for a good track EV or something to commute with. It doesn't really have a Tesla competitor with the Model S being too big and the 3 being half the price or less.
I do think other players are building out infrastructure now, but I find it humorous that what started as an anti-EV talking point is now used by Tesla owners against other EVs.
This was really always a FUD talking point, for the vast majority of vehicle owners. Most drivers could get by with a short range (under 100mi) EV for everyday driving. Long range really only matters for trips and people who make infrequent trips can rent a car. Multi-car households can have one trip-friendly car and other short range EV commuters. I'm in sales and many of my peers rent cars for business since they don't want the mileage on their personal vehicles.
I don't think Tesla should be afraid of the Taycan, because I see it competing with ICE vehicles more than I do Tesla. If Tesla's only industry advantage is charging infrastructure then they're ultimately doomed, because that infrastructure is expanding anyway. They broke through the barrier of EV adoption more successfully than other manufacturers in part because they built infrastructure to enable travel for people who truly did need it, assuage the fears of those who didn't really; but I think their main success was in building cars that appealed to people because they weren't just another compliance car.
Prior to Tesla, traditional automakers released electric compliance cars with just enough appeal to meet their quota requirements, but intentionally held them back because they didn't want them to be too popular. They limited availability to certain regions, required them to be leased so they could recover and destroy them, since they knew they had the potential to upset their revenue stream.
The Taycan is a good thing for us and so is the i-Pace, e-Tron and others, not only because they accelerate EV adoption as a whole, but because they can ultimately have the same effect on Tesla as a manufacturer that Tesla has had on VW, Porsche, Audi and others. Tesla is not perfect, service issues, quality, delivery and software bugs still affect a decent number of owners. Compelling EV options from more experienced manufacturers will make Tesla better by nature of competition or maybe eventually kill them if they're not up to the task. In either case, the EV cat is out of the bag and manufacturers are finally responding with vehicles that people want.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
That was my hope too, but no. I tried a Model S Raven this Saturday and, to me, it still sucked as far as the interior goes. I did afterwards give the salesman a ride in my eTron. His facial expression wasn't all that enthusiastic as he was looking around and playing with the gizmos.
There's no denying, Tesla is far behind in this area and they have wasted countless opportunities to improve. I respect them immensely for their accomplishments (while at the same time I profoundly despise the company's performance in the Service area) and would again, in a heartbeat, put my money where my mouth is if I saw improvement (or at least clear and unequivocal steps toward improvement).
From where I stand, they seem bent on driving into oblivion. They can't beat Porsche, Audi or Mercedes at the high end of the market. They just can't, the effort is just too gigantic. At the bottom end, I don't know that they can beat Kia/Hyundai/Others when it comes to manufacturing something acceptable for cheap. Injecting the 3/Y with as much fun and practicality as possible and selling them at $40K and up, to people who are sufficiently-impressed by them to overlook their flaws, is, in my opinion, the only way forward.
PWlakewood
Active Member
In your opinion Tesla is far behind but not everyone likes the ultra busy interiors with a bazillion buttons and knobs. Simplier is better and tesla nailed it with being minimalist.
I guess it depends on the timeline you are referring to.
Electrify America's plan by 2028 is to have only 39 states covered. | Tesla
As long as Tesla doesn’t go in the hole for producing these vehicles, there’s no reason to discontinue them. They can be low volume.
I will look forward to your assessment of the Taycan after you get yours. It’s nice that everyone has choices nowadays.
Watch the Porsche Taycan sprint to 124 mph 26 times in a row It looks like it can handle hard track use much better than a Model S.
headcase
Member
Putting aside the merits of each of the car models for a moment, I still believe the bigger issue is charging infrastructure. I am sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree when people say this is or will be quickly solved via 3rd party solutions from EVgo or Electrify America (at least here in the US). You have two underlying problems with that approach that no one here is talking about: ridiculous charging costs, and unreliable availability.
Cost: On the charging fees alone, Electrek just wrote an article about the very real problems when using 3rd party solutions, with no true per kWh pricing for consumers. And if you look at their analysis for using Electrify America's network: "If you’re fueling up at Electrify America’s middle price-tier, you’ll pay approximately $22 for 30 minutes which would fuel the typical EV with 22-30 kWh, paying upwards of $1.00/kWh. That’s $22 to drive 90 miles in your EV, more expensive than driving a Chevy Tahoe (~$16 in gas at $3.00 per gallon)." Wow.
Availability: Here's a simple checking question: How often do you hear people complain about the lack of DC Fast Chargers or inoperable / blocked public level 2 chargers? Now, how often do you hear that level of frustration when using the Tesla Supercharging network?
Cost: On the charging fees alone, Electrek just wrote an article about the very real problems when using 3rd party solutions, with no true per kWh pricing for consumers. And if you look at their analysis for using Electrify America's network: "If you’re fueling up at Electrify America’s middle price-tier, you’ll pay approximately $22 for 30 minutes which would fuel the typical EV with 22-30 kWh, paying upwards of $1.00/kWh. That’s $22 to drive 90 miles in your EV, more expensive than driving a Chevy Tahoe (~$16 in gas at $3.00 per gallon)." Wow.
Availability: Here's a simple checking question: How often do you hear people complain about the lack of DC Fast Chargers or inoperable / blocked public level 2 chargers? Now, how often do you hear that level of frustration when using the Tesla Supercharging network?
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