Should Tesla be worried about the Taycan?

[Chaserr]

Thanks! Not a first time EV or Porsche buyer so I know what I'm getting and there should be no surprises. Porsche's charge network is already bigger than Tesla's was back when my Tesla was new too, and dieselgate's settlement terms keep it growing. Not that I supercharge often, especially with the insanely slow supercharger rates lately.

 

[StealthP3D]

The Porche Taycan is potentially a huge threat to Tesla. Because we don't know how the Taycan will handle the heat/cold, how long the traction battery will last (degradation) and whether it will really have the stamina when pressed hard.

If any of these things are found to be lacking, it could give battery-electric vehicles a bad reputation!

Here's to hoping it's as good as Porche has hyped it up to be!

 

[TeeEmCee]

Putting aside the merits of each of the car models for a moment, I still believe the bigger issue is charging infrastructure. I am sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree when people say this is or will be quickly solved via 3rd party solutions from EVgo or Electrify America (at least here in the US). You have two underlying problems with that approach that no one here is talking about: ridiculous charging costs, and unreliable availability.

Cost: On the charging fees alone, Electrek just wrote an article about the very real problems when using 3rd party solutions, with no true per kWh pricing for consumers. 30 states allow kWh pricing, but non-Tesla EV drivers mostly miss benefits. And if you look at their analysis for using Electrify America's network: "If you’re fueling up at Electrify America’s middle price-tier, you’ll pay approximately $22 for 30 minutes which would fuel the typical EV with 22-30 kWh, paying upwards of $1.00/kWh. That’s $22 to drive 90 miles in your EV, more expensive than driving a Chevy Tahoe (~$16 in gas at $3.00 per gallon)." Wow.

Availability: Here's a simple checking question: How often do you hear people complain about the lack of DC Fast Chargers or inoperable / blocked public level 2 chargers? Now, how often do you hear that level of frustration when using the Tesla Supercharging network?

At first glance, EA looks ridiculously expensive. My first impression was "eff that, I'm taking the diesel". They do however have that "member pricing" with a $4/mo subscription and their per-minute charging (I believe EA only does per-minute pricing ) involves much higher average charging power for some cars (mine stays flat at around 150kW, until about 80%). If you average that out across the entire 0%-80% session, it's comparable to what you pay for a Model S/X. If you compared to a Model 3 that charged only up to 50% on one of those few-and-far-between-for-now high-power superchargers, then yes, the Model 3 would be considerably cheaper to charge. Otherwise, it's not that different.

 

[Krazaak]

In your opinion Tesla is far behind but not everyone likes the ultra busy interiors with a bazillion buttons and knobs. Simplier is better and tesla nailed it with being minimalist.

Personally, I think the only failure with Tesla's minimalist interior is lacking voice controls for everything. The screen interface works well when you're stopped, but features buried even one menu deep range from distracting while moving, to cumbersome on anything but smooth pavement. The voice recognition works great for addresses and music, we're way overdue for expanding the voice command set.

If I can "keep summer safe" for sentry mode, I should be able to "raise suspension to high and save at this location" or "lower temperature by 3 degrees".

 

[TeeEmCee]

@hcdavis3 You're in the Model S forum. Same market - i'm switching from a Tesla to a Taycan and the Porsche is cheaper than my Tesla was.

Your signature seems to indicate that you're driving a P85+. Props!
To me, that was the only Model S worth owning ... truly wonderful to drive!

 

[hcdavis3]

Watch the Porsche Taycan sprint to 124 mph 26 times in a row It looks like it can handle hard track use much better than a Model S.

Who cares?

 

[Chaserr]

Everyone interested in or asking about tracking their EV. I bought the Performance + package for that purpose but Tesla couldn't deliver on it.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Who cares?

Well, I reckon Tiff would have appreciated it.

Time index: 6:20
Tiff Needell drives the Electric GT Tesla Model S race car

 

[dk10438]

@hcdavis3 You're in the Model S forum. Same market - i'm switching from a Tesla to a Taycan and the Porsche is cheaper than my Tesla was.

I highly doubt that the Taycan will be cheaper than the Tesla. Last I read the MSRP for the base was going to be approximately $80k for the base so to get a car comparable to a Tesla you need to spend another 10k or so for the 4. And anybody who's ever shopped for a Porsche knows that they're underivable without options so I'm going to guess another 15-20k in basic options. So MSRP for an AWD base Taycan is going to be about 100-110k and that's not including the dealer markups that are going to charge. That price gets you into a MS100DL.

 

[Chaserr]

My Tesla was just under $130k. I'll need to add quite a few options to bring the Porsche up $50k but it's possible I may pay the same for both cars.

 

[VT_EE]

That was my hope too, but no. I tried a Model S Raven this Saturday and, to me, it still sucked as far as the interior goes. I did afterwards give the salesman a ride in my eTron. His facial expression wasn't all that enthusiastic as he was looking around and playing with the gizmos.

There's no denying, Tesla is far behind in this area and they have wasted countless opportunities to improve. I respect them immensely for their accomplishments (while at the same time I profoundly despise the company's performance in the Service area) and would again, in a heartbeat, put my money where my mouth is if I saw improvement (or at least clear and unequivocal steps toward improvement).

From where I stand, they seem bent on driving into oblivion. They can't beat Porsche, Audi or Mercedes at the high end of the market. They just can't, the effort is just too gigantic. At the bottom end, I don't know that they can beat Kia/Hyundai/Others when it comes to manufacturing something acceptable for cheap. Injecting the 3/Y with as much fun and practicality as possible and selling them at $40K and up, to people who are sufficiently-impressed by them to overlook their flaws, is, in my opinion, the only way forward.

I guess it’s personal taste, and everyone has their own. I frankly can’t stand the Audi interior after experiencing the slick minimalist interior or the Model 3. It’s just not my taste anymore. If a plush interior is more important to you than range, power, and a unique interior, the e-tron is for you. There is nothing wrong with that at all. The market supports many automakers and that is not going to change. Enjoy!

 

[Dutchie]

That was my hope too, but no. I tried a Model S Raven this Saturday and, to me, it still sucked as far as the interior goes. I did afterwards give the salesman a ride in my eTron. His facial expression wasn't all that enthusiastic as he was looking around and playing with the gizmos.

There's no denying, Tesla is far behind in this area and they have wasted countless opportunities to improve. I respect them immensely for their accomplishments (while at the same time I profoundly despise the company's performance in the Service area) and would again, in a heartbeat, put my money where my mouth is if I saw improvement (or at least clear and unequivocal steps toward improvement).

From where I stand, they seem bent on driving into oblivion. They can't beat Porsche, Audi or Mercedes at the high end of the market. They just can't, the effort is just too gigantic. At the bottom end, I don't know that they can beat Kia/Hyundai/Others when it comes to manufacturing something acceptable for cheap. Injecting the 3/Y with as much fun and practicality as possible and selling them at $40K and up, to people who are sufficiently-impressed by them to overlook their flaws, is, in my opinion, the only way forward.

The market begs to differ. Jaguar and Audi have yet to make a dent in the EV market

 

[SO16]

My Tesla was just under $130k. I'll need to add quite a few options to bring the Porsche up $50k but it's possible I may pay the same for both cars.

When did you buy your Tesla?

 

[headcase]

At first glance, EA looks ridiculously expensive. My first impression was "eff that, I'm taking the diesel". They do however have that "member pricing" with a $4/mo subscription and their per-minute charging (I believe EA only does per-minute pricing ) involves much higher average charging power for some cars (mine stays flat at around 150kW, until about 80%). If you average that out across the entire 0%-80% session, it's comparable to what you pay for a Model S/X. If you compared to a Model 3 that charged only up to 50% on one of those few-and-far-between-for-now high-power superchargers, then yes, the Model 3 would be considerably cheaper to charge. Otherwise, it's not that different.

Good to hear. I should have added transparency as the third problem, as that really is the core issue with these 3rd party networks. I should be able to compare prices up front, and not worry what my total bill is afterwards.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I understand that "only one less second" does not begin to describe the difference between doing 0-60 in 2.5 sec vs 3.5 sec but, if I may ask, how many people out there want to constantly peel off quicker than 3.5 sec, on the street?

Giving up pretty much everything else in order to accelerate ludicrously fast as opposed to just stupid fast ... I wonder how many will make that choice when given the option. Even in my neck of the woods (Texas: you go straight, turn 90 deg. and then you go straight again), that may not be a compelling advantage. I assume that a spirited drive on PCH would make the choice a lot more obvious.

Alright, back to work so I can at some point afford one of each as opposed to sit here arguing which one is better without owning either.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Personally, I think the only failure with Tesla's minimalist interior is lacking voice controls for everything.

At least the Tesla shuts the F up when it cannot process a voice command. The Audi proceeds to tell you about all kinds of utterly unrelated options and goes on and on ... not good for one's heart health.

 

[Chaserr]

That would drive me insane. Have you seen the porsche in person? Thats a deal breaker for me.

When did you buy your Tesla?

If you're interested in older tesla pricing here you go not mine but similar price though a few years newer

 

[Krazaak]

At least the Tesla shuts the F up when it cannot process a voice command. The Audi proceeds to tell you about all kinds of utterly unrelated options and goes on and on ... not good for one's heart health.

That's why I'm so disappointed that the Tesla doesn't have more voice command options. Their voice recognition is amazing, although it's obviously enhanced by being able to do an internet search to refine the results. I just picked up a 2015 BMW i8 as a fun car and tried to use the voice navigation exactly two times before I decided never to bother again. Even following the stringent formatting requirements to enter an address via voice, it resulted in two absurdly inaccurate destinations states away. Fair comparison, it's a year older, but upgraded maps and it can't hold a candle to my 2016 Model X for navigation and media.

That and my Tesla seems cheery while guiding me to my destination. The BMW seems faintly irritated that I've asked it to navigate and perhaps a little bored when notifying me of an upcoming turn.

 

[TeeEmCee]

That and my Tesla seems cheery while guiding me to my destination. The BMW seems faintly irritated that I've asked it to navigate and perhaps a little bored when notifying me of an upcoming turn.

They must have then used the same prison warden voice as in my older Audis.

 

[golfnut]

They shouldn't worry, and they aren't. The more the merrier. Tesla's plan was to help start the conversion from all gas powered cars and this competition will only help the cause. Tesla is probably more worried about getting more and more people into EVs period, whatever the company makes it.