Should Tesla make a “Track Edition” Roadster?

[AMPd]

Smaller battery with additional weight savings throughout the vehicle

Personally I’d like more range, MORE MORE MORE! But I can see why some people don’t need a lot of range and would rather have better vehicle performance on a race track

 

[Peteski]

Yes and not just for track use. Overall road handling and ride will all be much better if it sheds a few hundred pounds with a smaller battery. Range is all very well, but the weight penalty is hard to overstate. Even the current Model S and X are on the limit of what you would consider an acceptable compromise for weight and it remains their main handicap against ICE equivalents. Pushing that to a 200 kWh battery is for me a step too far, especially in a sports car!

 

[CarlK]

It's not just for range. Matter of fact it's not for range at all. It's to have enough power output to get the acceleration and top speed. It will also help track longevity. It's better to have more cells and each work less hard at high cruising speed. As for weight the Model 3 performance in (tuned) track mode already matches track time of the much lighter Cayman GT4 which was designed for track purpose.

 

[JasontheBeaver]

Yes! For the exact reasons you mentioned.

 

[Peteski]

It's not just for range. Matter of fact it's not for range at all. It's to have enough power output to get the acceleration and top speed. It will also help track longevity. It's better to have more cells and each work less hard at high cruising speed. As for weight the Model 3 performance in (tuned) track mode already matches track time of the much lighter Cayman GT4 which was designed for track purpose.

If that's true, then it's a poor solution. I know you are getting all excited about the Model 3 matching a GT4 around one track I've barely heard of, but the GT4 is deliberately power limited. The chassis itself is top notch of course. The Roadster is going to be hundreds of kgs heavier than the M3P too, which is only going to make handling even more of a challenge.

 

[jaguar36]

I'd love to see a track version. However as CarlK mentioned, the batteries aren't there for range, they are there for the power requirements. For a track version I'd want to see the typical track type stuff. Barebones interior, more tire, track focused suspension, aeromods and such.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Believe the new Roadster is going to be a track monster, weight and all.

With the Space X option it should be as nimble as a cat.

 

[CarlK]

Believe the new Roadster is going to be a track monster, weight and all.

With the Space X option it should be as nimble as a cat.

Yes you're right. SpaceX option has not entered this discussion yet but it will make the weight totally irrelevant. It does not rely on frictional force of tires, which is the current limitation against weight, to do either acceleration, braking or turning.

 

[Peteski]

Yes you're right. SpaceX option has not entered this discussion yet but it will make the weight totally irrelevant. It does not rely on frictional force of tires, which is the current limitation against weight, to do either acceleration, braking or turning.

I'll get the popcorn out for that.....

Is it really a feasible solution or is it Elon thinking too far out of the box?

Got to admire the ambition either way!

 

[CarlK]

Is it really a feasible solution or is it Elon thinking too far out of the box?

Much prefer that to those who could only think inside the box. A decade ago I'm sure you would have made the same comment about his rocket launching/landing plan but result speaks for itself.

 

[Peteski]

Much prefer that to those who could only think inside the box. A decade ago I'm sure you would have made the same comment about his rocket launching/landing plan but result speaks for itself.

Thinking out of the box is great, but throwing a huge heavy battery at your flagship sports car seems like a lazy solution. Adding thrusters to try and mitigate the consequences is certainly interesting but I fear a bit of an unnecessary distraction! Reminds me a little of the Model X FWDs. They kind of worked in the end but are definitely not worth all the hassle and complication.

So best of luck to those "test pilots" beta testing the Space X Roadster package! Seriously, I hope it's awesome but I can also see it turning pretty ugly. A bit like early ground effect race cars which could be death traps with their all or nothing downforce.

 

[CarlK]

Don't be a sour grape. I'd love to be a test pilot although I have no need of it and likely will not buy the SpaceX package. That can be saved to smack down at gas cars and non-believers.

 

[Roys3]

Some Roadsters will be tracked - so they might as well get prepared for it.
Sure they should make a track version - or at least give the standard version a "track mode" like they just did with Performance 3.

 

[Peteski]

Don't be a sour grape. I'd love to be a test pilot although I have no need of it and likely will not buy the SpaceX package. That can be saved to smack down at gas cars and non-believers.

Pointing out realities based on experience isn't sour grapes. There are a lot of positives about the Roadster and one obvious drawback, weight, which could be largely addressed by making a different compromise. Weight has always been the enemy of EVs and introducing a 200 kWh pack is only going to exaggerate that.

We can pretend weight doesn't matter if you like, but exoerience tells us otherwise. Maybe the Space X package will change things, but I'm certainly not counting on it. The more you depend on active systems like this to keep the vehicle on the road, the more dangerous it gets when something goes wrong.

 

[CarlK]

C'mon did you know active system transformed the car you like to crow about 911 from having one of the worst, and many say dangerous, weight distribution to one of the best track performing car.

Pointing out realities based on experience isn't sour grapes. There are a lot of positives about the Roadster and one obvious drawback, weight, which could be largely addressed by making a different compromise. Weight has always been the enemy of EVs and introducing a 200 kWh pack is only going to exaggerate that.

We can pretend weight doesn't matter if you like, but exoerience tells us otherwise. Maybe the Space X package will change things, but I'm certainly not counting on it. The more you depend on active systems like this to keep the vehicle on the road, the more dangerous it gets when something goes wrong.

C'mon did you even know active system is what transformed the car you like to crow about, the 911, from having one of the worst, and many say dangerous, weight distributions to one of the best track performing cars? If your attack on the Roadster is not sour grape I don't know what is.

 

[Peteski]

C'mon did you even know active system is what transformed the car you like to crow about, the 911, from having one of the worst, and many say dangerous, weight distributions to one of the best track performing cars? If your attack on the Roadster is not sour grape I don't know what is.

Well 911s are my thing and that is just complete and utter BS. No active anything on my classic 911 and it handles beautifully, as do all 911s. The only dodgy handling was with the very early short wheelbase models from the 1960s and even those were not that bad. All later 911s are very well balanced. You really don't know what you are talking about at all. It's almost painful having to respond!

There are of course pros and cons to a 40/60 weight distribution, but it's far from being inherently "dangerous" or one of the "worst" and certainly didn't need any active systems to perform well on track.

 

[CarlK]

Well 911s are my thing and that is just complete and utter BS. No active anything on my classic 911 and it handles beautifully, as do all 911s. The only dodgy handling was with the very early short wheelbase models from the 1960s and even those were not that bad. All later 911s are very well balanced. You really don't know what you are talking about at all. It's almost painful having to respond!

There are of course pros and cons to a 40/60 weight distribution, but it's far from being inherently "dangerous" or one of the "worst" and certainly didn't need any active systems to perform well on track.

Not sure who does not know what he's talking about. 911 had just little over one hundred horsepower in the beginning. No one cared about weight distribution of that pretty slow car. As sports cars getting more powerful that deficiency started to show. It was beaten by Ferrari's everyday, and it was indeed dangerous when you push it to limits. People were all calling for Porsche to make it mid-engine'd but Porsche of course had non-technical reasons for not to. That would not be a 911 if it becomes a mid-engine two seater. It finally figured out "active system" to make your beloved car still can exist today. So you see that is really not so bad.

Another example is people were wondering few years ago how Nissan GT-R, a pretty hefty car, could set a Nurbergring lap record that bests any of Porsche's 911 GT2/GT3/RS records at that time. Later it was learned the (primitive by today's standard) torque vectoring system in GT-R likely was what was responsible for that. Then we have the Model 3 performance that showcased how active system could do in a responsive electric EV that you keep refusing to acknowledge.

If we refused to think outside the box and want to stick only with traditions we would still be using stone tools and believe nothing can better that.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Weight does not effect Tesla handling as much as with other cars, as the heavy battery is mounted so low in the chassis.

Elon has mentioned that they have been making significant breakthroughs in their battery technlolgy that are much lighter, less expensive and even longer lasting.

Perhaps they will be first used in the much more expensive New Roadster to further enhance its track performance.

Tesla did pretty well with the performance of the P100D, but from my perspective they have knocked it out of the park with the latest Model 3 performance pack. They are becoming very competitive with other manufacturers track cars, especially on the shorter courses.

Believe their final challenge will be endurance racing, where the gassers larger fuel tanks still give them the advantage.

 

[Doko]

Should Tesla make a “Track Edition” Roadster?

Absolutely.

 

[Peteski]

Not sure who does not know what he's talking about. 911 had just little over one hundred horsepower in the beginning. No one cared about weight distribution of that pretty slow car. As sports cars getting more powerful that deficiency started to show. It was beaten by Ferrari's everyday, and it was indeed dangerous when you push it to limits. People were all calling for Porsche to make it mid-engine'd but Porsche of course had non-technical reasons for not to. That would not be a 911 if it becomes a mid-engine two seater. It finally figured out "active system" to make your beloved car still can exist today. So you see that is really not so bad.

Another example is people were wondering few years ago how Nissan GT-R, a pretty hefty car, could set a Nurbergring lap record that bests any of Porsche's 911 GT2/GT3/RS records at that time. Later it was learned the (primitive by today's standard) torque vectoring system in GT-R likely was what was responsible for that. Then we have the Model 3 performance that showcased how active system could do in a responsive electric EV that you keep refusing to acknowledge.

If we refused to think outside the box and want to stick only with traditions we would still be using stone tools and believe nothing can better that.

I see you are quite the "expert" here so I'm not getting drawn into another pointless internet debate about the basics of vehicle handling and the history of the 911, your summary of which above is frankly laughable and not worthy of serious comment.

Ignorance is bliss as they say!

Edit: As far as the relative dangers of "active systems" goes, it's one thing using systems to "optimise" the inherent grip you already have e.g. torque vectoring, stability control, ABS etc and quite another to introduce a system that actively "increases" your cornering/braking forces e.g. thrusters and active aero elements. These introduce a whole new level of danger for fairly obvious reasons. A failure of a thruster during a high speed cornering event would not end well.