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Should Tesla make limitations of autopilot clearer to owners?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by thegruf, Jan 26, 2018.

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  1. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    I, well like most everyone else here, spend more time on this forum than I should.
    Of course I learn a lot about Tesla and the cars both good and bad.
    This forum however represents only a small percentage of owners.

    So considering Autopilot performance, where to find out how it works?
    The manual of course. Well lads in particular don't RTFM. It's the rule (so good job I found this place really).

    but that's me ... what of all the other owners.
    How many of them read the maual?

    My point here is that with an ever increasing range of owners and over time perhaps incresaingly "ordinary" rather than enthusiast owners. How many are going to understand the limitations of AP? Or worse still how many are going to get wildly misleading impressions of AP capability from Youtube videos?

    Much though I hate disclaimers, nag screeens et al and admire Tesla determination not to succumb to such tedium, is it time for owners to have to sign up to a brief statement about autpilot performance and limitations perhaps when accepting each software upgrade to serve as a reminder that it is an L2 assistance system not full autonomy?

    thoughts?
     
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  2. PrGrPa

    PrGrPa Supporting Member

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    No thanks. At least not in the UK.

    It’s already in the manual isn’t it? And Tesla have been pretty clear about driving assistance, beta features, and so on.

    Sure, there’s a mismatch between the aspirational EAP description on the vehicle site and what you can drive today but that is also unambiguous.

    A test drive makes the current EAP limitations clear.

    What next? Warnings that ‘hot drinks may be hot and can cause scalding if dropped on skin’?
     
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  3. Derek Kessler

    Derek Kessler Active Member

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    Autosteer never comes turned on out of the box. You have to go into settings and activate it, and when you do so you're prompted with a Yes/No dialog that outlines that it's in beta, you have to maintain control of the vehicle, the kind of roads it is best suited for, and that you're ultimately responsible for whatever happens, even when the car is on Autopilot.
     
  4. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    We are adults so we should read Owner's Manual.

    If that is not enough, may be we should escalate to mandatory Autopilot Training and those who fail the class should have their cars impounded until passing! And do remember to pay your daily impound fee and bus tickets while attending remediation course!
     
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  5. mkspeedr

    mkspeedr Member

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    We could also use the cardboard sun shade approach and assume people don't think anymore.

    On a cardboard windshield sun shade:
    "Warning: Do Not Drive With Sun Shield in Place."
     
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  6. tktktk

    tktktk Member

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    If you have the money to buy a new or used Tesla, you should have the common sense to test drive the car extensively and even take it overnight prior to purchasing it, read videos, etc You should know the vehicle quite well and understand its limitations during those sessions. If for some reason you can't get to that point...you should hold on buying a Tesla or any vehicle for that matter.

    To push this back on Tesla, and create screen nags for folks who know how to operate their vehicle, is not the answer. If there is frustration or confusion over what AP does, folks should look at themselves in the mirror and ask...why didn't I vet out a $50k, $100k, $150k vehicle better than I did....Personal responsibility.......

    If you're saying Tesla should make you watch a video before purchasing.....just RTFM.
     
  7. phaduman

    phaduman Supporting Member

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    OP, the folks you are asking this Q to, are true Tesla fans. They are not common people. Like you though, I am in support of making the car work for the "normal" people :). M3 will have many of those that will never visit any forum, and I can bet, will not read the manual (except in a DMV ticket correction school!). So, building a few tutorials (no more than 1min), in our amazing dashboards will go a long way. Just my 2 cents - I know this crowd will poo poo me for it...
     
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  8. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    Yes, Tesla should make it clear in the marketing content that autopilot is a driver assist feature and the driver must be ready to take control at any time..

    They should also probably put information in the documentation that autopilot is a driver assist feature and that the driver should be ready to take control at any time.

    It would probably be a good idea, too, for them to somehow, through some heretofore unheard of means, to have the user interface itself convey the concept that the driver should pay attention.

    And, if only they could somehow implement technology that sensed a driver's hands so that the driver who was lacking awareness of the marketing literature, understanding of the product documentation, who had overlooked entirely the user interface, and was lacking the common sense that humans used to have...

    If they would just do that, then we all might be able to sleep at night.
     
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  9. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Well-Known Member

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    I do think they should have an "about your autopilot" video available on the center screen when you go to enable it.

    Where it doesn't make you watch it, but the video is clearly available to watch. Especially if it was a fun video that you'd want to show others. Where the video shows the limitations of the system.

    It's not like the car isn't full of easter eggs that are fun to show friends/family.
     
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  10. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Before activating AP, the system should require you to watch the first 25 seconds of this video three times...



    That takes 1 minute and 15 seconds out of your life, but could save your life. There's nothing like a real life example of the system's limitations. I also bet it would keep people's eyes on the road a lot more than many people have them focused now, even if they have read the manual and disclaimers.
     
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  11. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    and I am one of them - which is exactly why the thread.

    We know it, others (at least some of them) almost certainly don't. The others are increasing daily. Statistically based on a norm of average common sense, some will be bright and understand, but some will be dumb and believe youtube and other media for the car's capabilities

    Sooner or later it will go bad and the NHTSA and others will be compelled to move to lock it down.
    My point is that's bad for all of us.

    just look at this ffs



    okay it's a fun watch and AP performance is impressive vs stated capability, but some prat is going to watch this and believe their car has this 100% capability ... until it goes wrong.

    I think we have been lucky other than that one sad fatality. Another one though ... statisitcs won't mean squat.
    Even the recent firetruck incident has the NHTSA looking closely, hopefully the truth will out on that incident.

    I mean how tough would it be (just as an possible method) to have to reprise AP performance and re-enable it after a software upgrade. I could certainly live with that, and it would sure as heck give Tesla a lot more solid ground regarding whether their customers were properly informed and reminded of APs abilities.

    Just as an aside dont forget it's not just ICE and oil that would be happy to see Tesla falter, but increasingly other rivals such as Google/Waymo (who have already stated L2 is dangerous),GM and Uber will seek to make capital out should there be another Tesla incident. Success in business does not make friends.
     
  12. dipper

    dipper Member

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    During my delivery, I said I never even test drove a Tesla. The delivery girl show me the car function on the road, as part of the test drive. It is better than just showing how things work in the garage. Makes better sense how the car works, and limits too.

    Tesla should really offer this during delivery.
     
  13. RAW84

    RAW84 Member

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    Most don't read the manual, but every time autopilot is engaged there's a warning that comes on the screen instructing the driver to always be alert and ready to take over if needed. This is sufficient, in my opinion.
     
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    You're unfortunately expecting too much. :( This is slight tangent and wasn't on something safety critical like knowing autopilot and its limitations but I posted about a "street encounter" (well, charging station encounter) with someone who had their Model S for 3 years:
    encounters w/other Leafers w/surprising lack of knowledge - Page 9 - My Nissan Leaf Forum

    I still see people here on "TMC" (who are probably more enthusiastic than the average Tesla driver, in aggregate) have Teslas for years and STILL use the wrong units (e.g. say "kw" or "kW" or "KW" when they mean kWh and vice versa).

    Some people just won't read manuals and some REFUSE to read them. I see questions asked frequently on Leaf Facebook groups (some that are very basic and the answer easy to find) that are WELL covered in the FM. They just didn't RTFM.
     
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  15. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Is it really sufficient? If I didn't read here, and see videos like the one I posted above, I would think that's in case of something like a kid running out in front of you chasing a ball, or road works where it can't read the lines, or any number of other factors that do not involve running into a stationary vehicle on the road that can kill me.

    Guilty as charged. I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer. Plus, the reason for capitalization is nonsensical, at least in my view. You can honour James Watt if you wish with the capitalization. But I mean no disrespect when I fail to do so.
     
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  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    I actually don't care that much about the capitalization or it sometimes being wrong. I want people to use kWh or whatever capitalized variant when they mean kWh. Ditto for kW. Don't use the wrong units (e.g. kW when you mean kWh).

    When people can't use the right terminology or units, it calls into question their knowledge of the subject.

    I'm no electrician nor EE either. However, my major was in my university's school of engineering and applied science. I actually went in as EE but switched majors twice to be further away from the electrical part.
     
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  17. boonedocks

    boonedocks Active Member

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    Where are all of the posts with videos and news reports of other manufacturers TACC and standard variety Cruise Control. I am saddened for any loss of life and obviously to a lesser extent, damage to a Tesla, but surely there are countless reports of this happening every day. It is clear from that video as well as the recent recount of the Tesla vs Firetruck that eyes on the road would have preventwe both of those. Or at LEAST massively reduced the amount of damage and possibly death.
     
  18. RAW84

    RAW84 Member

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    Yes, I do believe it's sufficient. It doesn't matter why you think the warning is there, if you follow the directions of that warning then that stationary vehicle won't kill you.
     
  19. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Tesla should provide more information - especially since the software is in "beta" and falls short of the functionality listed on Tesla's website for EAP. Rather than having drivers try to guess how AP has changed in each release, Tesla should summarize what has changed.

    Is there any summary of what features are fully, partially, or not working with AP2.x now vs. the expectations Tesla set for EAP when the cars were ordered online?
     
  20. Brian-MS90D

    Brian-MS90D Member

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    It seems pretty simple to me without any need for written warnings at all. When the car tries to do something crazy, or doesn't respond to the environment correctly, I slightly squeeze my hands and instantly take control because I don't want to die. I don't need a manual to explain to me that I should not let the car kill me. Are people worried the car will not let them resume control?

    It seems to me that some people want the system to not require their attention or their hands on the wheel. That is not the current system.
     
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