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Should Tesla sell access to the Supercharger network to non Teslas

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by meloccom, Aug 29, 2018.

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  1. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Tesla have always said that they would be willing to work with other manufacturers to share costs and allow other brands of EVs access to the Supercharger network but so far that has not come to pass. It also occurred to me that Tesla could create another income stream by selling access to the Supercharger network individually to Jaguar iPace, Porsche Taycan and other EV owners with CCS1 or CCS2 charging capabilities.
    To do this would require Tesla to develop 2 adapters, Tesla US to CCS1 for the USA market and Tesla type 2 to CCS2 for Europe and Asia Pacific.
    Rather than the car VIN being read the serial number of the adapter would be what is used to authorise charging and this would be linked to a Tesla account the same way a car is currently.
    I have no special engineering knowledge but I think such a system could be setup if Tesla had to the desire to do it, however what I am more interested is is as a Tesla owner would you welcome this, or not.
    In Australia where I live the Supercharger network does not seem to be heavily used with the possible exception of the stations located in the cities, which seem to be full of Hire Cars, or what USA folk would call Limo Services.
    I think this would be a great idea as Tesla could use the income to more quickly expand the Supercharger network however some may fear further congestion at popular Supercharger sites like in California.
    What do others think?
     
  2. Country Roads

    Country Roads Member

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    Only if it helps them make a profit and survive to change the world. Otherwise no. I think waiting in line at a supercharger would be superfrustrating.
     
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  3. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Active Member

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    I would really like to see the different EV technologies converge. Having different solutions isn't good for anyone. I believe that Elon opened the patents a few years ago, but that doesn't make my Leaf and 3 plug into the same place
     
  4. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    Charge at home? Get the Long Range battery? I have waited for charging only once, for three minutes, and even then I can't say I want to have to wait because there are three Leafs charging. We pay for free charging. I can't imagine that every Leaf owner wants to pay a thousand bucks for an adapter. Let Leaf, etc., build out their own charger network and find out how much free charging costs. There's a reason they haven't done that.
     
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  5. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    tesla has offered to sell the superchargers to anyone, but so far nobody has taken asked tesla except for an electric truck startup company.


    i suspect the mainstream car companies have too fragile of egos to be seen going to tesla for help.
     
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  6. Benjanos

    Benjanos Member

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    No idea about the maths and if it would be worth it for Tesla, but in principle I prefer they don't
    1) Because it will annoy Tesla owners who effectively paid to help build this network
    2) Because it would dilute the differentiation the amazing Super Charger network gives Tesla
    3) Because other car companies who are far bigger should darn well be doing something themselves

    But I guess if they were ever financially desperate, it could be a leaver to pull.
     
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  7. LMichel

    LMichel Member

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    Yes they should. And the pricing model should be demand based (similar to Uber, etc). As chargers fill up, the price goes up. The cost could be published to an app so that non-Tesla drivers can know in advance what they might need to pay.
     
  8. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    I don't think they should right now. The Supercharger network is a key differentiator that puts Tesla ahead of their competition. Right now, Tesla needs to continue widening the gap between them and their competitors. Maybe, years from now, when Tesla has truly left their competition in the dust, they can push for further standardization of the world's charging infrastructure.
     
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  9. Darren Donovan

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    #9 Darren Donovan, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
    Elon needs more money.
    Elon wants more widespread EV acceptance by the public.
    These are facts.

    Making other EVs pay to use the supercharger network will help with the 2 issues above.

    Not wanting this to happen because you don't like non-Tesla EVs at the supercharger station, or because you hate other brands, or due to some other subjective, personal, elitist reasons do nothing to promote what Elon (Tesla) wants.
     
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  10. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely!! Tesla has the better standard and it would help solidify that if other car companies adopted what Tesla has developed.
     
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  11. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    Not wanting Tesla to give up one of their most significant competitive edges at a time when they're on the cusp of being profitable isn't hating other brands or being elitist. It's simple pragmatism over idealism. The revenue they might get from opening up Supercharging to their competitors right now would not be worth it if means that every other EV manufacturer instantly had a nationwide Supercharger network.
     
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  12. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    There are multiple articles where Tesla been very open about sharing the supercharger network. Don't spew a viewpoint that has been completely opposite of what Tesla has publicly said for years.

    Tesla is in talks with “some auto manufacturers” to share the Supercharger Network
    Tesla is ‘actively talking to other automakers’ about opening up its Supercharger network, says CTO JB Straubel
    Tesla might let other companies use its Supercharger network

    Elon musk himself has set he's not opposed to others using superchargers. Most of them have not taken him up on his offer though.

    Any reason you disagreed with everyone @adaptabl ? do you know something about tesla's plans that nobody else does?
     
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  13. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    "Spew"?! "Spew" is how you label opinions you disagree with? The OP posted a question asking for opinions. I offered an opinion. He didn't ask for us to merely parrot Tesla's position.
     
  14. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    That's all it is, an opinion. Tesla has already said they'd sell supercharger access to other car manufacturers. The OP likely wasn't aware of Tesla's willingness to do it already.

    But we all know Teslas is, rendering debating if Tesla would do it a moot point. You seem to have suggested that Tesla would not open the network for competitive advantage, despite every statement from Tesla saying they would.
     
  15. electricar

    electricar Member

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    A big reason that I bought a Tesla was the supercharger network - it would be very upsetting to have to wait at a supercharger to charge my car while another make of car is using it. There are already problems with long waits to charge your Tesla at some superchargers. Doing business as a car company with a new business model ( no dealers, fixed prices, proprietary charging network, etc ) is large part of the brand's appealing; doing away with the proprietary charging network would be a mistake.
     
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  16. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    Screw the other protocols, use Tesla's proprietary protocol or move along...
     
  17. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    Elon said that they would want companies who participate to also proportionally extend the network.

    So let's say Nissan opts in with their 300k Leafs and as a result they double the Supercharger network size from 10'000 to 20'000. And they also further commit to build 1 charger for every one Tesla builds. Would you really be opposed to that?
     
  18. electricar

    electricar Member

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    Yes Tesla can only survive as an auto manufacturer by being unique - kind of like Apple doing both unique hardware and software.
     
  19. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    The cars you mention could work ok on Supercharger sites. Leaf, Bolt, and others that use CCS are not capable of high speed DC charging so they would impede access for others. There would have to be a minimum charging rate threshold to participate.
     
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  20. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

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    @meloccom,
    This only works for TESLA Inc if the additional subscription fees (paid by OEM niche auto manufacturers)
    would be used to substantially grow the SC network to all corners of the major Tesla markets (USA, China & Europe)

    Exactly!!
    TESLA Inc should only target the niche OEM who are 'too small" to develop or join the existing and slowly expanding EV networks
    (IONITY, Electrify America)
    More importantly, these niche OEM car companies would relish the idea of having access to the Tesla SC network.

    @Rockster,
    The Tesla SC Network is truly a huge advantage for Tesla Inc.
    However, why not open up access to niche brands that would not saturate the SC network.
    After all, they would pay big bucks and add to TESLA Inc bottom line.

    @tpham07,
    If Elon is open to sharing the Tesla SC network, then we also should be.

    Here's my opinion on Tesla "sharing" the SC network with other car manufacturers

    First, exclude all large Car Manufacturers
    (VW Group, Peugeot Group, Renault, Fiat Chrysler Group, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ford & GM
    These Co. do not wish well to TESLA Inc.

    Second, make the SC network only available to certain Prestige Niche Brands
    Jaguar & Land Rover (JLR Group) in USA, EU & China
    Ferrari & Alfa Romeo (part of FCA) in USA, EU & China
    Volvo (Geely Inc) in USA, EU & China
    Porsche (VW Group) in USA, EU & China
    Lexus (Toyota Inc) & Infiniti (Nissan Inc) In Japan only

    Collectively, these niche brands sold approximately 375,000 vehicle in Europe (January - June 2018)
    I believe only the JLR Group and Geely Group would be open to buying into Tesla SC network.

    Best-Selling Car Brands in Europe in 2018 (Half Year)
    The following were the top-selling car brands in Europe during the first half of 2018 according to the ACEA:

    HY2018 HY2017 % Change
    1 VOLKSWAGEN 965,471 882,380 +9.4
    2 RENAULT 621,357 618,469 +0.47
    3 FORD 540,010 562,878 -4.1
    4 PEUGEOT 535,478 491,584 +8.9
    5 OPEL/VAUXHALL4 486,822 527,787 -7.8
    6 MERCEDES 438,670 447,143 -1.9
    7 AUDI 421,179 427,837 -1.6
    8 FIAT 418,950 460,352 -9.0
    9 BMW 410,295 414,950 -1.1
    10 SKODA 387,100 355,048 +9.0
    11 TOYOTA 376,198 353,521 +6.4
    12 CITROEN 329,775 318,333 +3.6
    13 HYUNDAI 283,879 263,271 +7.8
    14 DACIA 282,233 242,890 +16.2
    15 NISSAN 276,224 308,614 -10.5
    16 KIA 258,933 245,841 +5.3
    17 SEAT 246,656 206,499 +19.4
    18 VOLVO 160,959 150,741 +6.8
    19 MINI 110,299 107,173 +2.9
    20 JEEP 87,792 52,232 +68.1
    21 HONDA 75,861 73,802 +2.8
    22 LAND ROVER 69,434 81,494 -14.8
    23 SMART 51,033 51,252 -0.4
    24 ALFA ROMEO 48,079 44,481 +8.1
    25 PORSCHE 41,581 38,054 +9.3
    26 JAGUAR 40,476 39,348 +2.9
    27 LANCIA/CHRYSLER 27,244 37,503 -27.4
    28 DS 26,171 24,656 +6.1
    29 LEXUS 24,338 22,068 +10.3
    30 LADA 2,766 2,496 +10.8
    31 ALPINE 569 0
     

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