SK360
Member
Interesting, I've never seen 100+. This is unscientific as I have just been going back and going through my videos and looking at the overlays. I'm sure Temps, Speed and SOC all come into play.
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Should track mode 100% regen be stronger than normal driving?
- Thread starter tm1v2
- Start date
Interesting, I've never seen 100+. This is unscientific as I have just been going back and going through my videos and looking at the overlays. I'm sure Temps, Speed and SOC all come into play.
Someone really should invent a simple way to convert energy to heat that can be easily modulated. This friction thing we have is really just a complex mess.
Correct assumption on the temps and SoC. When I went to grab some screenshots after leaving the driveway the battery was not warm, it limited the regen to 64kw and 90kw (think this was correct) and after heating the battery up to 110 degrees it was maxed out at 85/120 kw. Also uncertain if the model year has anything to do with it...I could've sworn my 2019 was +/- 115kw in track mode max.
Also what's being shown is a maximum allowed value. Even when that value is 85 for me (2018 dual motor non-performance) the actual peak is low to mid 70's.
Now I'm curious too, I'll do a proper bashing on Thursday to see if it actually goes to 125kw. Am guessing that the pack will have to be hot and a bit lower on SoC. Will try it at 120 degrees and 50% SoC.
Grab some data on the front/rear regen split too if you remember. Curious if the front generates anything material. Was discussing this recently in another thread since for the most part the front seems to not do much. I was randomly reading an old Motor Trend article today from the time when track mode was being developed with Randy Pobst and it said they intentionally dialed out front regen since it was causing the front end to push (in track mode anyway, but maybe they just carried that through everywhere - plus potentially better efficiency using the permanent magnet rear motor?).
Edit - for anyone interested, what sent me back looking for Model 3 Willow Springs track times (which led to the Motor Trend article) was this video I saw today. Really awesome.
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I remember when I first drove a dual motor S I was hoping regen would be much stronger than my RWD P85, with use of the front motor. NOPE. Tesla had clearly tuned it to feel the same. (No idea how much of each motor it was using, I wasn't taking any turns hard enough to possibly notice from butt feel.)
The best one-pedal regen I've used is the Polestar 2. The lift-off regen response is so much sharper than any Tesla I've driven. It felt stronger overall as well. I was hoping Track Mode might bring that level of lift-off regen responsiveness but it doesn't (even if max regen is increased).
Maybe we'll see aftermarket regen tuning someday. I'd pay to get sharper one pedal driving.
Pretty sure regen is only on the rear motor, but SMT only has an aggregate Regen number and doesn't segment the numbers if it does use both motors.
You can see it in the front and rear motor power (negative is regen from that specific motor). You can log it, or just tap to show max/min values from your drive. I do see the front kick in here and there but it seems to only happen under narrow circumstances and just brief blips up to like 5-10 kW. I haven't paid a whole lot of attention though, just curious if anyone ever sees real power coming from the front.
Got around to testing tonight. Battery was over 100 degrees at 80% SoC. It appears that in sport mode, the regen is 73kw rear motor only...and to my surprise, track mode enables Regen on the front motor too. 87kw Regen in the rear and 29kw regen on the front.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Got my M3P back from its PPF appointment and took it for a quick spin tonight (pun intended). Can confirm, Track Mode v2 100% regen is definitely stronger than normal driving mode. Not that I doubted you @Sam1 or @Ren.OG .
I also learned that (panic) braking from highway speeds is subjectively excellent. The brake distribution felt great, the car was extremely stable while stopping very shortly in front of a very unexpected obstacle around a turn leading to a tunnel entrance. I was not yet in Track Mode for this.
More seat time needed to really get a feel for the effects of the Handling Balance and Stability Assist sliders. I hustled along one short stretch of twisty back road, and a few highway ramps, but I didn't do laps to compare different settings. On the back road I used 50:50 and 0, and the highway ramps 40:60 and 0. With the latter it still understeered when I briefly reached the limit of grip, but honestly I don't even remember whether that was under much power or not, it's late and this was still just a casual one-off drive. I'll do much more extensive driving soon and get a nice baseline reference with the car completely stock, before I swap out the wheels+tires, dampers+springs, FLCA bushings...
So far I'm really, really glad I ponied up for the M3P.
I also learned that (panic) braking from highway speeds is subjectively excellent. The brake distribution felt great, the car was extremely stable while stopping very shortly in front of a very unexpected obstacle around a turn leading to a tunnel entrance. I was not yet in Track Mode for this.
More seat time needed to really get a feel for the effects of the Handling Balance and Stability Assist sliders. I hustled along one short stretch of twisty back road, and a few highway ramps, but I didn't do laps to compare different settings. On the back road I used 50:50 and 0, and the highway ramps 40:60 and 0. With the latter it still understeered when I briefly reached the limit of grip, but honestly I don't even remember whether that was under much power or not, it's late and this was still just a casual one-off drive. I'll do much more extensive driving soon and get a nice baseline reference with the car completely stock, before I swap out the wheels+tires, dampers+springs, FLCA bushings...
So far I'm really, really glad I ponied up for the M3P.
Went for another quick Track Mode spin this morning. I tried out 30:70 front:rear handling balance. Tentatively 30:70 felt better than 40:60 on highway ramps, but there was too much traffic to get fully clean runs in. Will have to do more late night testing.
I used 30:70 on that local twisty back road stretch too, but that road is just too uneven and bumpy for the stock suspension, I don't feel comfortable getting really close to the limit when the car is constantly bottoming out and crashing over the bumps. (I almost feel bad about what I did to the M3P demo car on that road...
) Testing back road handling balance will have to wait for either smoother twisty roads, and/or the Redwood Öhlins DFV coilovers I ordered.
Now on the smooth highway ramps that's not an issue, and I'm already finding myself wanting more grip.
The stock suspension does get a bit floaty even on a smooth-ish pavement when pushed hard in high speed turns, but it's stable enough to explore the limits.
I'm loving the quick steering ratio, small sporty steering wheel, and firm steering weighting. It just feels great, even when the suspension isn't quite reacting as I would like. For steering weight the "Standard" mode feels perfect to me. I am having trouble feeling how much front tire grip is left, but hopefully the changes I'm making shortly will improve that (taller sidewall tires, FLCA bushings, coilovers).
I used 30:70 on that local twisty back road stretch too, but that road is just too uneven and bumpy for the stock suspension, I don't feel comfortable getting really close to the limit when the car is constantly bottoming out and crashing over the bumps. (I almost feel bad about what I did to the M3P demo car on that road...
) Testing back road handling balance will have to wait for either smoother twisty roads, and/or the Redwood Öhlins DFV coilovers I ordered.Now on the smooth highway ramps that's not an issue, and I'm already finding myself wanting more grip.
The stock suspension does get a bit floaty even on a smooth-ish pavement when pushed hard in high speed turns, but it's stable enough to explore the limits.I'm loving the quick steering ratio, small sporty steering wheel, and firm steering weighting. It just feels great, even when the suspension isn't quite reacting as I would like. For steering weight the "Standard" mode feels perfect to me. I am having trouble feeling how much front tire grip is left, but hopefully the changes I'm making shortly will improve that (taller sidewall tires, FLCA bushings, coilovers).
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Every time I move away from 50:50, my lap times slow down.
Unless it's really wet, in which case FORWARD bias speeds me up as you can get on the power earlier without having to pedal to keep the rear end in check.
"Feel" on an entrance ramp is not a good measure of how fast it actually is.
The F/R bias only seems to do anything when you are under power, and the wheel is turned.
Unless it's really wet, in which case FORWARD bias speeds me up as you can get on the power earlier without having to pedal to keep the rear end in check.
"Feel" on an entrance ramp is not a good measure of how fast it actually is.
The F/R bias only seems to do anything when you are under power, and the wheel is turned.
Thanks! Yeah I'm not trying to determine what's fastest, this just for fun. I want to find a rhythm for holding both ends of the car at the limit of grip simultaneously through sweeping turns.
On my last sporty fun AWD car the best way was to trail brake pretty hard into turns, then as soon as I felt it rotate nicely with a hint of oversteer, get on the power and keep on it through the turn. With the right throttle application the AWD system would then maintain that balance through the turn. It was super fun, and it did improve my lap times compared to letting it plow at the limit. I'm not tracking the M3P though, so for now I just care about fun, not lap times.
That AWD ICE car wouldn't initiate rotation under power in the dry though (even though the center diff was mildly rear biased when not locking up). The Model 3 clearly can and wants to rotate under power though, depending on drive settings. So I'm exploring how that feels and if it's a good way to initiate the rotation I'm looking for, or if I should go back to trail braking. If I just crank the M3P into a turn without goosing the rear power or shifting weight forward (trail braking) it just understeers, much like that ICE AWD car. I'm not nearly there yet to feel comfortable attempting serious trail braking in my M3P on the street though.
Edit: Then there's the stability control + traction control factor. I've never used them on a sporty car before. Even with Track Mode, I'm getting used to the feeling of electronic nannies intervention. At the moment I find it almost scary because it feels unpredictable and out of my control. But maybe with more seat time, and/or turning down the stability control slider more, I'll get more comfortable with the nannies around. On the flip side, the M3P is so much more rear-biased than my AWD ICE cars were, plus the crazy EV torque, that I'm also a bit scared of dialing down the nannies too much!
On my last sporty fun AWD car the best way was to trail brake pretty hard into turns, then as soon as I felt it rotate nicely with a hint of oversteer, get on the power and keep on it through the turn. With the right throttle application the AWD system would then maintain that balance through the turn. It was super fun, and it did improve my lap times compared to letting it plow at the limit. I'm not tracking the M3P though, so for now I just care about fun, not lap times.
That AWD ICE car wouldn't initiate rotation under power in the dry though (even though the center diff was mildly rear biased when not locking up). The Model 3 clearly can and wants to rotate under power though, depending on drive settings. So I'm exploring how that feels and if it's a good way to initiate the rotation I'm looking for, or if I should go back to trail braking. If I just crank the M3P into a turn without goosing the rear power or shifting weight forward (trail braking) it just understeers, much like that ICE AWD car. I'm not nearly there yet to feel comfortable attempting serious trail braking in my M3P on the street though.
Edit: Then there's the stability control + traction control factor. I've never used them on a sporty car before. Even with Track Mode, I'm getting used to the feeling of electronic nannies intervention. At the moment I find it almost scary because it feels unpredictable and out of my control. But maybe with more seat time, and/or turning down the stability control slider more, I'll get more comfortable with the nannies around. On the flip side, the M3P is so much more rear-biased than my AWD ICE cars were, plus the crazy EV torque, that I'm also a bit scared of dialing down the nannies too much!
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That's the thing though- the bias only really does anything while you are under significant power. It has the majority effect as you are going full throttle as you come out of the corner, not mid-corner. Plus, please do not run track mode on the street.
Yeah, you should be. Go watch the videos of people driving a M3P in Dyno mode with no traction control. It's basically impossible. Tesla clamped that down real quick. The closest you can get now is the drift preset- that will really show you how fast the car can get away from you if it is allowed to spin up a tire. It's instantaneous loss of grip and tire smoke. But that also shows you that track mode will allow you to turn off all nannies.
Trail braking on the street? Yeah, I hope you're never comfortable with that.
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