Elon has said he does not like the Mexican Bandito front end of the Karma and thinks the car lacks storage space. But lets face it, the Karma is a sweet looking ride and since Henrik Fisker basically designed the Karma as an electric vehicle while taking a salary from Tesla, why not use it? There would be no copyright problems, car companies do this all the time. If Tesla scaled down the size a bit, redesign the front end and added storage space we would have one awesome Gen III vehicle. I know it would seem a bit vindictive, but it is hard not to see that Tesla already paid for the design, why not use it?
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bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
You say 'sweet loooking', I say 'makes my skin crawl'. My point being that the Karma design has been quite polarizing -- people either love it or hate it.
As an investor, I hope Elon has more sense than doing anything that aligns the Tesla brand with Fisker.
As an investor, I hope Elon has more sense than doing anything that aligns the Tesla brand with Fisker.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
I'm probably too boring, but to me, the Gen III needs to take the average Accord/Camry/Fusion/Civic/Elantra owner and make them say, "this new Tesla is perfect for me any my family."
RLA12194
Member
mnx
2018 M3P
If gen III looks anything like any of the above, then I'm selling my stock and my Model S.
Seriously though I get comments all the time about how fantastic Model S looks by people who know nothing at all about the car. I'm not sure why you'd want to make a bland-mobile.
Agree with Bonnie. Also, Tesla has some challenges (past and going forward) with confusing the two brands. Even if you like the look (which I don't) of the Fisker Karma, it would be a very bad idea to associate that look with Tesla for a number of reasons. It's an overly charged metaphor, but it's something like taking a wanted poster from the local police station and telling your barber you want the same look.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
Who said anything about bland? Those five models sell somewhere around 125,000 a month in the US. IMO, Tesla's Gen III success will come from capturing a substantial proportion of these purchases.If gen III looks anything like any of the above, then I'm selling my stock and my Model S.
Seriously though I get comments all the time about how fantastic Model S looks by people who know nothing at all about the car. I'm not sure why you'd want to make a bland-mobile.
mnx
2018 M3P
Well the first 2 cars you listed were accord and camry. They are probably the last 2 cars (and manufacturers) I think of when style is mentioned...
Getting back to the thread topic, the karma isn't that great looking. The back end is terrible and the grill doesn't do it for me either. The Atlantic however is a different story. That could possibly be interesting although I'm sure Franz/Tesla can do a better job than anything designed by fisker...
If you take look at Hyundai's recent success story, and ignore the warranty (since they've had it for quite some time), there are very well-received common design elements in the Azera, Sonata and Elantra. BMW's the 3 and 5 series are other examples. I think TM plans for the Gen III to be a smaller but easily-associated version of the MS. In fact, EM compared the MS to an Audi A7 and the Gen III to the Audi A4 (although not discussing their designs per se). While the A6 shares more bones with the A4 than the A7, it's important to establish brand identity. In fact, Robert Cumberford said he liked the MS design but thought they missed an opportunity for brand identity with the somewhat generic nose. IMO, the clay model of the Gen III posted some time ago looks terrific.
NigelM
Recovering Member
a) It's not the design work that costs the most money (although IMO Franz vonH deserves every penny of his remuneration)
b) Tooling costs the most money and Tesla can't borrow or steal that
c) I hate the Karma, some love it, but it's a unquestionably a polarizing design
b) Tooling costs the most money and Tesla can't borrow or steal that
c) I hate the Karma, some love it, but it's a unquestionably a polarizing design
ZBB
Emperor
This is incorrect. The A7 and A6 are on the same platform and are basically the same car -- the A7 just has the rear hatch, while the A6 is the sedan and wagon.
The A4 and A5 are similar -- the A4 being the sedan and wagon, with the A5 being a coupe and 5-door hatch (which is not sold in the US -- which is too bad, since its even better looking than the A7)...
Because it is an impractical design - especially for a car that needs to be smaller and less expensive than the S, but hit 200 miles range at lower cost.
It has too little interior room.
It has way too much volume wasted in the nose of the car.
It has huge impractical wheels.
It has a big tunnel down the center.
It isn't engineered for a flat battery pack underneath.
It is way too big.
It isn't aerodynamic.
It is just a stupid idea.
It has too little interior room.
It has way too much volume wasted in the nose of the car.
It has huge impractical wheels.
It has a big tunnel down the center.
It isn't engineered for a flat battery pack underneath.
It is way too big.
It isn't aerodynamic.
It is just a stupid idea.
@ ZBB -- You are of course right about the platforms; I should have used a different noun than "bones". Perhaps design esthetic. However, my larger point was that Audi sedans (A4, A6 & A8) all look quite similar, and I think Tesla would be wise to follow that model.
Bingo. Tesla is creating the Tesla brand. There is already a stigma with the Karma whether you like its looks or not.
igotzzoom
Active Member
The Karma is a subjectively attractive car, but my left-brain side can't get past how inefficiently it uses its size. I haven't been in one, but every review I've read and the photos I've seen show it has a very cramped interior for what's a very large car. I agree with some of the others, it's kind of over-styled. Some have called the Model S "bland" but I think it has a very distinct, high-tech, clean style, much like (dare I say it!) Apple products. Tesla can probably afford to be a little bolder with its next-generation cars, but I think there is value in familiarity and family resemblance.
Agree, although I might not go as far as saying its a stupid idea:smile: Be nice to your follow TMC'ers.
I don't think he meant that personally.
Anyway. I would think they want to keep a common design language among the brand. Copying the Karma would not only associate the company with a brand that likely won't be around much longer but don't think it would mesh well. Just an opinion though of course.
Anyway. I would think they want to keep a common design language among the brand. Copying the Karma would not only associate the company with a brand that likely won't be around much longer but don't think it would mesh well. Just an opinion though of course.
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