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Should we disconnect our Teslas from 3G and wireless to stop Tesla revoking AutoSteer

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by MrAustraliaTax, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. MrAustraliaTax

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    HK Tesla owners are reporting that Tesla has turned off AutoSteer and AutoLaneChange in their v7.0 Teslas.

    They also report that this has been done without them having to agree to a firmware upgrade.

    I was not aware that Tesla had that degree of control over the features of our car.

    Should we be taking our cars "off the air" to prevent Tesla taking away features they advertised and we paid for? Discuss.
     
  2. yo mama

    yo mama Member

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    I think doing something like that might boomerang on you.
     
  3. P85DEE

    P85DEE Active Member

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    Wow......

    If it were discovered that you took the step that you are describing in an effort to avoid the laws in your area, there could quite possibly be consequences following that.

    If you pay for something, from Tesla or anyone else, and then your area of residence subsequently "outlaws" whatever it was that you bought, well then the issue is with your local or even possibly your national authorities who immediately made what you bought yesterday, and what was yesterday legal, now illegal.
     
  4. Lyon

    Lyon 2016 S P100DL, 2016 X P90D

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    ZmyTH4t.jpg
     
  5. MrAustraliaTax

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    That is retrospective legislation and it doesn't work that way. Anything that WAS legal and is made illegal has a "from" date.

    eg in Australia seatbelt use is MANDATORY in the back seat UNLESS your car was manufactured BEFORE the law was enacted and doesn't have rear seatbelts. You are not required to fit seatbelts to your perfectly legally purchased car.


    My proposition is that Tesla has the ability to turn off features of my car without my consent even if such features are legal. I don't want them to have that degree of control over my car.
     
  6. Sasmania

    Sasmania Member

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    Isn't this a government regulatory issue, not Tesla's choice?

    I wouldn't mess with it, I'm sure they are working to get it re-approved asap.
     
  7. P85DEE

    P85DEE Active Member

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    Yes, I see what you mean.

    In the Hong Kong situation some of the features of V7 are said to be awaiting approval.

    But to your point about attempting to dodge them and keep them from shutting your autopilot off if Tesla were inclined to do such a thing, what would that mean for your insurance, and your liability if you were in an accident while it was activated or operable?

    Could you be prosecuted and or jailed? Could the person whom you were in the accident with, sue Tesla?

    Tesla Autopilot Illegal In Hong Kong, Reportedly | CleanTechnica
     
  8. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

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    Do you remember the Air Suspension Wars after the October 2013 highway collisions in the U.S. with large pieces of metal? Overnight, Tesla removed the ability of air suspension-equipped cars to lower at highway speed, as an immediate safety action to help prevent further such problems. There was outcry (who would have predicted...???). Things like "I paid for air suspension!!!! I've been wronged!!!" Several months later, along with the Star Trek Titanium Deflector Shield installs, additional air suspension functionality was added (user-configurable, etc), and just appeared with an update.

    Do you remember Hill Assist? I bought my car without it and without any idea it was even possible. One morning, I woke up and there it was.

    IMHO, you can't have the advantage of waking up to new features that you really like, without the disadvantage of Tesla possibly changing things that you don't want changed. Personally, I like getting new stuff, although there may not be much or any new stuff happening for my old, slow, blind, non-D car any more. But if you don't like Tesla having that degree of control over your car, I can't see the benefit to you actually purchasing one.
     
  9. MrAustraliaTax

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    #9 MrAustraliaTax, Nov 18, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
    This is a fair point, but I'd rather have the OPTION of deciding to accept or decline new features and the OPTION of having the features taken away. (eg v7.0 for non auto-pilot cars isn't that compelling an update if you prefer the old look of the dash - you can refuse that update. HK Tesla owners can't choose to accept or decline removal of AutoSteer, it has been forced on them.)

    Regarding air suspension auto-lowering at speed pre titanium shield - correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that this was a firmware update that could be refused which is different to the forced AutoSteer removal in HK.
     
  10. harry

    harry Member

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    According to my recollection, it was NOT an update that we had the ability to refuse. Furthermore, when Tesla did give it back they changed the range of adjustment (slightly more limited).

    BTW, it is difficult to refuse the V7.0 "update" if you need any work by the Service Centers. I had to get Fremont to give permission to refuse it.

    BTW2 -- Has anything Tesla has ever done before (including the air suspension lowering episode) caused the degree of divisiveness that V7.0 has created for non-AP owners?
     
  11. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Personally, my take is that everyone should understand by now that Tesla has this capability, and if they/you aren't cool with that, they/you don't have to buy a Tesla.

    However, if your point is that you want Tesla to know that you want them to request consent on everything (barring legal or safety fixes), then I think you should tell them. Tesla has been exceptionally good about listening to customer feedback -- sometimes even ridiculously so.
     
  12. Vince Cobelo

    Vince Cobelo Member

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    Wait a minute... Do we know this is happening in the U.S.? That AP is being grey'ed out? It is in Hong Kong but I haven't heard of it here.
     
  13. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    It's all supposition at this stage.
     
  14. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Should not have bought a Tesla then. That's just the truth of it. Going forward this is how it's going to be, but I believe Tesla has proven to date that they don't do things just because/on a whim/to make customers mad and that if you give them a chance they make it better in the end. If you can't live with that, be satisfied with that, or don't believe it to be true - should not buy a Tesla.
     
  15. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

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    How are you going to disconnect your car from 3G, permanently?

    Only way I can think to do that is to run a signal jammer inside the car 24/7 which is a) illegal at least in the UK, and b) really annoying since your phone won't work.
     
  16. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    There is another way, but it would involve taking apart the dash to remove the SIM chip, probably not a great idea, and I know I'd miss my Slacker, and mapping. In fact I'd miss the mapping more than I enjoy the auto-steer that I'd be trying to preserve.

    For me, I'm going to just hope Tesla does the right thing, and continues to improve Autosteer, while ruthlessly going after anyone who misuses the system and refuses to take responsibility for their own actions.
     
  17. strider

    strider Active Member

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    And if you had to take it in to service for any reason they would update the firmware anyway. It's not much different than an ICE. If there's a recall and you bring it in to service they will apply the recall.
     
  18. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    If you are in an accident in Hong Kong while using Autopilot, you will be prosecuted and your insurance will not cover your claim. Are you suggesting owners take such risks simply not to lose a feature that has been deemed illegal by local regulatory agencies?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Autopilot was never legal in Hong Kong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because you, as an owner, are wholly unprepared to accept the consequences of your actions. Tesla is doing what is best for everyone when there is a regulatory issue. Tesla is acting responsibly. You are not.
     
  19. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    This thread is not specifically about HK, in fact the OP is not from there.

    I think the worry is not just regulatory, but that Tesla may disable the feature to help with PR to counter stupid people using it irresponsibly, not because a regulatory body tells them to. In that case your points don't really apply as it would be Tesla being unprepared to accept the consequences of their actions, and Tesla not acting responsibly by disabling a feature that when used as advertised offers a safety advantage.

    Now I don't think I fully buy that worry, but I do understand it. I personally think Tesla won't do that without a regulator forcing them to, but I understand the worries of those who think it's possible.
     
  20. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Tesla has never, ever removed an important feature in this manner without a regulatory body being involved. Their past actions should not lead anyone to worry in the slightest. Apple can also disable our iPhones remotely, yet that has never come to pass. I don't think we need to fear hypothetical Orwellian scenarios. Tech giants can do a lot of things, that doesn't mean they want to or will.

    It's kind of like saying Obama is coming after your guns. He isn't. And won't. But I suppose he could. Those who think along these lines are living in a hypothetical, fear-dominated state of mind. This is just an example, I'm not trying to get political or anything.
     

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