Should we strive for a post-Tesla EV?

[voyager]

"Electrifying vehicles adds yet more weight. Combustible, energy-dense petroleum is replaced by bulky batteries.
And the rest of the vehicle must get heavier to provide the necessary structural support.
The electric F-150 weighs 700 kg more than its petrol-powered predecessor."

Now I know that for instance a Tesla Model 3 is sort of a lightweight among EVs... But still.
Especially the whole truck/SUV trend in combination with batteries aren't exactly conducive to solving issues.

Make electric vehicles lighter to maximize climate and safety benefits

Tax heavy cars and shrink batteries to consolidate the gains from electrifying transport.

www.nature.com

 

[voyager]

Marx told Insider in an interview following the publication last month of his book "Road to Nowhere: What Silicon Valley Gets Wrong About The Future of Transportation". It explains how automakers and Silicon Valley disruptors continue to promote technology as the sole solution for inner-city traffic and climate change, in a way that does little to help society, Marx believes.

Don't trust 'narcissistic, self-interested' billionaires like Elon Musk to improve transport, author says

Society should not continue to trust self-serving Silicon Valley executives to solve its transport problems, author Paris Marx told Insider.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[nwdiver]

"Electrifying vehicles adds yet more weight. Combustible, energy-dense petroleum is replaced by bulky batteries.
And the rest of the vehicle must get heavier to provide the necessary structural support.
The electric F-150 weighs 700 kg more than its petrol-powered predecessor."

Now I know that for instance a Tesla Model 3 is sort of a lightweight among EVs... But still.
Especially the whole truck/SUV trend in combination with batteries aren't exactly conducive to solving issues.

Make electric vehicles lighter to maximize climate and safety benefits

Tax heavy cars and shrink batteries to consolidate the gains from electrifying transport.

www.nature.com

…. this is why we have the aphorism ‘don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good’.

Would a lighter battery be better? Um…… yeah. Should we keep doing ~10x more harm per mile using ICE waiting for the magic battery or mass transit instead using existing battery tech? Um….. no.

If you’re that concerned then ride a bike, take the bus or walk.

 

[voyager]

Another way of looking at it: COP27 is going to be held in a few weeks.
Are 'we' doing enough? After all the talk and speculaton whether grids in some States will cope with rising
grid demand, it is good to realize that the EV will replace the AC as the Nr. 1 electricity consuming 'appliance'....

 

[voyager]

Size matters - caught in one depiction: how energy efficiency, utilizing space and safety hang together.
The bigger the box, the more you become boxed in on the road, the more energy it uses, the less feel for what happens around you.

 

[David_Cary]

Yeah - size is a byproduct of decades of true stupidity and so hard to fix now.
Correction on one thing - electricity use runs this way - EV, heat, then a/c. This is true for most of the US. I happen to live in the south and my heat is slightly less than my a/c for multiple reasons - very tight house which matters more for heat and then we like it colder than average which increases the a/c but drops the heat.
Now - this won't matter until people get heat pumps. But they should realize when it comes to energy cost even if not using electricity.

I consider my energy use pretty ideal. Not perfect but balanced. It is frustrating that 6% is background energy use for 2 Tesla's. That is such low hanging fruit at this point. Considering heat is about 12% and reducing that by 50% is a herculean task on a new house built very tight. That is why I wish for a non-Tesla EV. I know there are options but it isn't worth getting a new (or used) car right now - but I do consider it. The background use is about 30% of my net use after solar.

And riding a bike is not really an option for most of the US because of the way it is built. I could try and live 1/2 way between my 2 workplaces and bike but it would involve a small but real risk to my life. Commercial sites are least likely to be bike friendly. And then my son's school - not sure how we get his Saxaphone to school on a bike. We live 1.5 mile to his school by road and no school bus. So you can be outrageously concerned and still not find a bike realistic. Much more realistic to move to Manhattan but a fairly expensive proposition and not everyone can do it.

That doesn't mean I don't want a lighter, more efficient, less background-wasteful EV. And when you look at cost, the vast majority of people can't afford a Tesla - so yeah, we need non-Tesla EVs.

 

[petit_bateau]

Yeah - size is a byproduct of decades of true stupidity and so hard to fix now.
Correction on one thing - electricity use runs this way - EV, heat, then a/c. This is true for most of the US. I happen to live in the south and my heat is slightly less than my a/c for multiple reasons - very tight house which matters more for heat and then we like it colder than average which increases the a/c but drops the heat.
Now - this won't matter until people get heat pumps. But they should realize when it comes to energy cost even if not using electricity.

I consider my energy use pretty ideal. Not perfect but balanced. It is frustrating that 6% is background energy use for 2 Tesla's. That is such low hanging fruit at this point. Considering heat is about 12% and reducing that by 50% is a herculean task on a new house built very tight. That is why I wish for a non-Tesla EV. I know there are options but it isn't worth getting a new (or used) car right now - but I do consider it. The background use is about 30% of my net use after solar.

And riding a bike is not really an option for most of the US because of the way it is built. I could try and live 1/2 way between my 2 workplaces and bike but it would involve a small but real risk to my life. Commercial sites are least likely to be bike friendly. And then my son's school - not sure how we get his Saxaphone to school on a bike. We live 1.5 mile to his school by road and no school bus. So you can be outrageously concerned and still not find a bike realistic. Much more realistic to move to Manhattan but a fairly expensive proposition and not everyone can do it.

That doesn't mean I don't want a lighter, more efficient, less background-wasteful EV. And when you look at cost, the vast majority of people can't afford a Tesla - so yeah, we need non-Tesla EVs.

I happened to check the electricity numbers recently for Germany when writing an interview question, and they are:

2% transport,
30% commerce,
26% household,
42% industry.

I posted the question with the background and more information at post #402 in :

Energy Sector News

WTI $73.9 bbl Brent $78.5 /bbl NL TTF gas €137/MWh (EU Natural Gas - 2022 Data - 2010-2021 Historical - 2023 Forecast - Price - Quote) Regulatory proxy for fossils fights domestic solar, again https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/12/08/regulator-could-prove-solars-nemesis/ UK gets tightish...

teslamotorsclub.com

Clearly these splits will change as the renewables penetration of electricity, and of energy, progresses including things like ASHP and BEV.

 

[UkNorthampton]

I happened to check the electricity numbers recently for Germany when writing an interview question, and they are:

2% transport,
30% commerce,
26% household,
42% industry.

I posted the question with the background and more information at post #402 in :

Energy Sector News

WTI $73.9 bbl Brent $78.5 /bbl NL TTF gas €137/MWh (EU Natural Gas - 2022 Data - 2010-2021 Historical - 2023 Forecast - Price - Quote) Regulatory proxy for fossils fights domestic solar, again https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/12/08/regulator-could-prove-solars-nemesis/ UK gets tightish...

teslamotorsclub.com

Clearly these splits will change as the renewables penetration of electricity, and of energy, progresses including things like ASHP and BEV.

To help even out loads & supplies, time-shifting of demand is useful. Of these, which can be time-shifted most easily?

I'd presume EV Charging (transport) & storage (which could be any of these sectors, EV Charging, Shopping Centre & Industry Electricity Storage, lesser extent smaller retail & household).

Therefore EV Charging has probably got the most scope to time shift as usage grows & therefore help curb peak demands - smooth it out and adapt to shortages (low solar & wind on dark still days). Time of Use tariffs (prices) is key to changing demand dynamically. High voltage long-range transmission & sharing would help a lot.

 

[petit_bateau]

To help even out loads & supplies, time-shifting of demand is useful. Of these, which can be time-shifted most easily?

I'd presume EV Charging (transport) & storage (which could be any of these sectors, EV Charging, Shopping Centre & Industry Electricity Storage, lesser extent smaller retail & household).

Therefore EV Charging has probably got the most scope to time shift as usage grows & therefore help curb peak demands - smooth it out and adapt to shortages (low solar & wind on dark still days). Time of Use tariffs (prices) is key to changing demand dynamically. High voltage long-range transmission & sharing would help a lot.

You might find the interview question helpful.