Show of hands… Adaptive Suspension

[SteveSchweer]

How many new Model S owners out there can actually FEEL the difference between “Sport” and “Comfort “? I know I can’t.… even though Tesla Service says it is functioning normally. No matter what I do with the suspension controls, my ride is the same… punishingly harsh. Yet, from these forums and YouTube, I see that many of you think the suspension is great. As this is probably one of the most sophisticated suspensions ever put in a car, I have trouble believing that mine is “functioning normally “. I think the key objective question here is “can you actually FEEL a difference in ride quality when you change suspension modes?” (By ”feel” I mean you KNOW it changed, if you just THINK it changed then it didn’t). It would really help me and, I know, a number of others out there to find out if our suspensions are screwed up or if that’s just the way they are. Thanks for any input you can provide.

 

[glide]

Bad news…… I made my weekly call to my service center on Friday…. I talked to the same guy who, one week ago, ASSURED me that Tesla had my video, and was in the process of working on the problem…. THIS week, he acted surprised that I would ever THINK that he could send the video to Tesla without seeing the car first! It was like being transported back in time five months!…. It almost blew my flux capacitor! I reminded him that they had ALREADY seen my car for this very problem and pronounced it in perfect condition but it was as if the past five months had been erased from his memory. Maybe he’s a beta version of Elon’s Optimus project. Anyway, I have no choice but to play along. I made a service appointment for June 13 when I will sit down with one of the technicians and show him the video. (I now believe that NO ONE in the shop or in any department of Tesla has viewed it). I used to think that the Service Department was the logical conduit for technical/operational problems to be presented to Tesla… I now realize that they are the opposite. They seem to view their role as “gate keepers“ whose job it is to PROTECT Tesla from any bothersome problems. SO, I will now try a new approach… I will attempt to send the video directly to Tesla by every means possible. There are lists of employee names available online… maybe I can find one or two in the right department and I can get an email through. There are even instructions online for sending snail mail to Elon Musk! You guys can do this too. If any of you know anyone who works at Tesla, there might be a possibility of going through them. Please help!

Appreciate all your efforts but this is exactly how Tesla handles defects in manufacturing.

Ignore, delay, delay, delay, and hope that you will just accept the vehicle the way it is or, better yet, sell/trade in for “the latest and greatest”

It reminds me of my P85D battery fiasco all over again. I’m still waiting on Tesla for my settlement check. So even when the courts step in, don’t expect any real resolution.

 

[SteveSchweer]

I took my car in for my June 13 appointment. (100 miles round trip). The good news is that I actually sat down with a technician for 30 minutes, explained the situation and showed him the video. They had had the video for 6 weeks but I believe that this was the first time anyone in the shop had seen it. He seemed to accept my test as valid, and appeared surprised by how screwed up the system is. I asked him what he was going to do with the information and he said he was going to notify “Brian” , one of the regional service managers who has “long experience at Tesla “. He admitted that there was no need to look at the car again (I knew that!) , but it was worth driving there to get someone to look at the video. I insisted that they open a “service ticket“ for the issue and assign the responsibility for resolving it to the technician whom I had spoken with. The shop manager swore that they had done this. So far, this looks good! This is exactly what I had hoped they would do. The only problem is….THE BAD NEWS. Tesla has exhibited what appears to be a corporate ethos of bald-faced lying. The procedure seems to be: listen carefully and politely to find out exactly what the customer wants, promise him that to get him to go away without any argument, then, forget the whole thing and go back to what you were doing! I plan to make it hard to ignore me . I will bug them regularly. One positive note is that I hear that Elon recognizes that service is a problem and has made it his major focus. As this IS a service oriented problem, it’s possible that it might get some attention. As usual, I’ll keep you posted.

 

[glide]

I took my car in for my June 13 appointment. (100 miles round trip). The good news is that I actually sat down with a technician for 30 minutes, explained the situation and showed him the video. They had had the video for 6 weeks but I believe that this was the first time anyone in the shop had seen it. He seemed to accept my test as valid, and appeared surprised by how screwed up the system is. I asked him what he was going to do with the information and he said he was going to notify “Brian” , one of the regional service managers who has “long experience at Tesla “. He admitted that there was no need to look at the car again (I knew that!) , but it was worth driving there to get someone to look at the video. I insisted that they open a “service ticket“ for the issue and assign the responsibility for resolving it to the technician whom I had spoken with. The shop manager swore that they had done this. So far, this looks good! This is exactly what I had hoped they would do. The only problem is….THE BAD NEWS. Tesla has exhibited what appears to be a corporate ethos of bald-faced lying. The procedure seems to be: listen carefully and politely to find out exactly what the customer wants, promise him that to get him to go away without any argument, then, forget the whole thing and go back to what you were doing! I plan to make it hard to ignore me . I will bug them regularly. One positive note is that I hear that Elon recognizes that service is a problem and has made it his major focus. As this IS a service oriented problem, it’s possible that it might get some attention. As usual, I’ll keep you posted.

Appreciate all you are doing but I suspect your assumption is correct.

Service employees will be extremely nice and seem empathetic but then do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to address the problem.

 

[tm1v2]

Appreciate all you are doing but I suspect your assumption is correct.

Service employees will be extremely nice and seem empathetic but then do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to address the problem.

Well, service center staff can't really solve software or engineering issues on their own. It's the escalation process and Tesla engineering's lack of taking ownership or even being responsive to these software-y escalations that is the problem. Not really service center staffs' fault, I'm sure they'd get in trouble if they told customers "Sorry but Tesla engineering is going to ignore this and there's nothing I can do about it."

Tesla recently messed up the power steering assist on the 3 Performance. Well probably all 3's but only M3P drivers are actually in tune enough to post about it on these forums. No mention of any such change in the release notes, so no idea if it was deliberate or a mistake. Those of us who care are having a similar difficult time with escalating it...it's in that same category of problems, like the Palladium adjustable dampers, where Service Centers really need Tesla engineering to step up, take on the problem, and communicate back with real, useful status updates.

Another example is the broken UI on the energy graph display in my MCU1 S P85. A few years ago a software update changed the bottom row button placement (with the 5, 15, 30 miles and rated, ideal buttons) such that only the top few pixels - not even containing any text - are still visible or touchable on the screen. Tesla Service was like okay that's weird, we'll have to escalate this as it sure looks like a software issue...and nothing. Still a bug probably 3+ years later.

Personally I think Tesla Service has been very good to us overall over the years, no not perfect of course, but almost always trying to help and generally taking care of us as best they can within the resources they're given. It's when those resources are limited that things fall apart, and it's really outside of their control. (Okay there was one SA we dealt with once who was a useless sleazeball...we never went back to that SC. And Mobile Service has some persistent coordination issues with not arriving with the right parts. But overall I have lots of very positive things to say about Tesla service and most service staff I've interacted with, especially compared to my past car dealership experiences!)

 

[pvdoug]

I took my car in for my June 13 appointment. (100 miles round trip). The good news is that I actually sat down with a technician for 30 minutes, explained the situation and showed him the video. They had had the video for 6 weeks but I believe that this was the first time anyone in the shop had seen it. He seemed to accept my test as valid, and appeared surprised by how screwed up the system is. I asked him what he was going to do with the information and he said he was going to notify “Brian” , one of the regional service managers who has “long experience at Tesla “. He admitted that there was no need to look at the car again (I knew that!) , but it was worth driving there to get someone to look at the video. I insisted that they open a “service ticket“ for the issue and assign the responsibility for resolving it to the technician whom I had spoken with. The shop manager swore that they had done this. So far, this looks good! This is exactly what I had hoped they would do. The only problem is….THE BAD NEWS. Tesla has exhibited what appears to be a corporate ethos of bald-faced lying. The procedure seems to be: listen carefully and politely to find out exactly what the customer wants, promise him that to get him to go away without any argument, then, forget the whole thing and go back to what you were doing! I plan to make it hard to ignore me . I will bug them regularly. One positive note is that I hear that Elon recognizes that service is a problem and has made it his major focus. As this IS a service oriented problem, it’s possible that it might get some attention. As usual, I’ll keep you posted.

Thanks for all your efforts. I check this thread daily and it’s great to get a (hopefully) positive response.

 

[TheFunStarts]

SteveSchweer said:
"My tech mentioned that Tesla changed the internal communication protocols at about the time my car was built."

We have ascertained that both you and I had 2022 MS's delivered in December 2021. Only a small set of MS owners appear to have this issue. I am wondering if only those with this issue had had similar manufacturing dates. My question to the forum would be: If you have a very poor suspension in your 2022 MS, was it manufactured in November-December 2021? I know I am grasping at straws, but if we can pinpoint manufacturing dates it might result in a clue and perhaps a solution.

I also have the issue and have 2022 long range delivered in December.

 

[SteveSchweer]

Here’s an update on my efforts to inform Tesla of the Adaptive suspension bug. I think I may have had some success, but ,as usual, it’s difficult to tell. About a month ago I initiated a live chat with customer service. That resulted in an “Refid” number being assigned to the issue along with an email address. I wrote a short cover note explaining that the video referenced in the email documented a bug in the Adaptive Suspension system. I briefly described some of the findings of my test…. Ie. 5 of the 7 ride comfort settings are the same… maximum firmness. And, the softest setting available is “Sport “. I asked them to route the video to the team responsible for the suspension. I checked back on the refid every week. They said it was in “Advanced Customer Support“. After 3 weeks, the chat rep said he would ask them to email me an update. In a few hours I received an email. It said “your car is working as expected “, and “Service has done their due diligence “, and “there is no further action for Tesla to take at this time “. That’s it! No mention of the bug, the video, nothing! They acted as if I had complained about an unresolved service issue instead of documenting a proven bug. Nevertheless, I believe I have achieved some measure of success. My goal was to get Tesla to look at the video and take the issue seriously. The fact that they so studiously avoided mentioning anything to do with a bug in their suspension system suggests that they DO understand that this is a potentially dangerous liability issue for Tesla. After all, it is a major flaw in a system involved in the control and handling of the vehicle. If, in some future litigation, it comes out that Tesla knew about a problem with their suspension system and did nothing, someone besides Elon could end up owning the company! Not to mention the fact that this is also a warranty issue… Adjustable Ride Control is a major, advertised feature of the Model S. This bug renders it inoperative. I think that Tesla always acts in their own best interest. (And to hell with the customer). In this case, I believe their best interests coincide with ours. I think that they can be expected to: 1. Preserve “plausible deniability“ as long as possible by denying anything to do with the bug and avoiding any “paper trail“ reference to it. And, 2. FIX the bug as soon as possible in the background to disarm the whole issue. They understand that the cost of doing nothing is potentially huge in the form of liability judgments, verses the trivial cost of patching the bug. I predict that this will be resolved in a future software update…. Without even a “release note“ to identify it.

 

[pvdoug]

Here’s an update on my efforts to inform Tesla of the Adaptive suspension bug. I think I may have had some success, but ,as usual, it’s difficult to tell. About a month ago I initiated a live chat with customer service. That resulted in an “Refid” number being assigned to the issue along with an email address. I wrote a short cover note explaining that the video referenced in the email documented a bug in the Adaptive Suspension system. I briefly described some of the findings of my test…. Ie. 5 of the 7 ride comfort settings are the same… maximum firmness. And, the softest setting available is “Sport “. I asked them to route the video to the team responsible for the suspension. I checked back on the refid every week. They said it was in “Advanced Customer Support“. After 3 weeks, the chat rep said he would ask them to email me an update. In a few hours I received an email. It said “your car is working as expected “, and “Service has done their due diligence “, and “there is no further action for Tesla to take at this time “. That’s it! No mention of the bug, the video, nothing! They acted as if I had complained about an unresolved service issue instead of documenting a proven bug. Nevertheless, I believe I have achieved some measure of success. My goal was to get Tesla to look at the video and take the issue seriously. The fact that they so studiously avoided mentioning anything to do with a bug in their suspension system suggests that they DO understand that this is a potentially dangerous liability issue for Tesla. After all, it is a major flaw in a system involved in the control and handling of the vehicle. If, in some future litigation, it comes out that Tesla knew about a problem with their suspension system and did nothing, someone besides Elon could end up owning the company! Not to mention the fact that this is also a warranty issue… Adjustable Ride Control is a major, advertised feature of the Model S. This bug renders it inoperative. I think that Tesla always acts in their own best interest. (And to hell with the customer). In this case, I believe their best interests coincide with ours. I think that they can be expected to: 1. Preserve “plausible deniability“ as long as possible by denying anything to do with the bug and avoiding any “paper trail“ reference to it. And, 2. FIX the bug as soon as possible in the background to disarm the whole issue. They understand that the cost of doing nothing is potentially huge in the form of liability judgments, verses the trivial cost of patching the bug. I predict that this will be resolved in a future software update…. Without even a “release note“ to identify it.

Thank you for your continued fine efforts. I do not have the wherewithal to do it, but I would love to be part of a class action lawsuit on this. And I have never sued anyone. I do not see them moving on this until they have to. Even a small claims action, if publicized, might cause some movement. And I don’t need a financial settlement; I just want them to fix my car.

 

[d1ez3]

Delivered Nov 2021 and same issue. My area is all brick roads and no suspension settings make any difference. Ride is harder than my Audi S3 I had previously

 

[Ed Hart]

Well....the problem disappeared back in late April.

 

[SteveSchweer]

Well....the problem disappeared back in late April.

What do you mean? Comfort mode suddenly appeared? Could you give us the details?

 

[SteveSchweer]

I received software update 2022.20.5 the other day. Since it included a new feature enhancing the Adaptive Ride Control, I had hoped that Tesla would use it as “cover“ for fixing the bug. It would make it easier for them to explain the sudden improvement in everybody’s ride without admitting that there had been a bug. Of course, I was disappointed.… no change in ride quality. Renders the new feature completely useless doesn’t it? I still believe, however, that the “forces“ at work here (potential litigation, warranty satisfaction, competition) will nudge Tesla to ultimately fix the problem. The costs of doing nothing are potentially large, versus the small cost of fixing the bug. In the meantime I think I may have stumbled upon a quick, easy method of determining if a particular car has a working Adjustable Ride Control or not. When I did the measurements of the pulse width modulated signal sent to the shock solenoids (see my video, referenced above) I noticed that what was labeled “percentage damping“ under suspension info EXACTLY matched the “duty cycle“ of the PWM signal that I measured…. For ALL SEVEN of the ride comfort settings! (Duty Cycle being the pulse width expressed as a percentage of maximum). In other words, I measured a pulse width of 20% of maximum, and the display read “damping percentage 20%. Of course, “damping percentage” and PWM Duty Cycle are completely different animals… 0% damping equals 100% duty cycle, and conversely. Nevertheless, an exact match for Comfort, Sport, and all 5 of the Ride Comfort settings is too much to ignore. It appears that the measurements that I had to obtain using an oscilloscope are displayed directly on the “suspension info“ screen! To test this theory, I need to know what YOUR displays read. If we can prove that cars with working suspensions show DIFFERENT percentages than cars with non-working suspensions, we might be able to take THAT to Service and get some satisfaction. Here’s what to do:
get in your car, go to this screen:

tap the brake to activate the suspension, then select “Comfort “ and read the Front Left Compression Damping number… write it down. Now read the same number after selecting “Sport “, then tap “Advanced “ and select “Ride Comfort “ and record the numbers for the 5 settings “Soft“ thru “Firm”. Here’s what mine reads: Comfort: 0. Sport: 28. “Ride Comfort, Soft thru Firm: 0. 4. 4. 8. 20.
PLEASE reply to this post with your results. Give your cars’ year and model AND your delivery date! If your results are the same as mine, just say so, but if they’re different, I’m really interested to know what they are. I’m hoping to get some replies from those of you with working suspensions. The readings will only take a minute to get! PLEASE HELP! Thanks!

 

[pvdoug]

I received software update 2022.20.5 the other day. Since it included a new feature enhancing the Adaptive Ride Control, I had hoped that Tesla would use it as “cover“ for fixing the bug. It would make it easier for them to explain the sudden improvement in everybody’s ride without admitting that there had been a bug. Of course, I was disappointed.… no change in ride quality. Renders the new feature completely useless doesn’t it? I still believe, however, that the “forces“ at work here (potential litigation, warranty satisfaction, competition) will nudge Tesla to ultimately fix the problem. The costs of doing nothing are potentially large, versus the small cost of fixing the bug. In the meantime I think I may have stumbled upon a quick, easy method of determining if a particular car has a working Adjustable Ride Control or not. When I did the measurements of the pulse width modulated signal sent to the shock solenoids (see my video, referenced above) I noticed that what was labeled “percentage damping“ under suspension info EXACTLY matched the “duty cycle“ of the PWM signal that I measured…. For ALL SEVEN of the ride comfort settings! (Duty Cycle being the pulse width expressed as a percentage of maximum). In other words, I measured a pulse width of 20% of maximum, and the display read “damping percentage 20%. Of course, “damping percentage” and PWM Duty Cycle are completely different animals… 0% damping equals 100% duty cycle, and conversely. Nevertheless, an exact match for Comfort, Sport, and all 5 of the Ride Comfort settings is too much to ignore. It appears that the measurements that I had to obtain using an oscilloscope are displayed directly on the “suspension info“ screen! To test this theory, I need to know what YOUR displays read. If we can prove that cars with working suspensions show DIFFERENT percentages than cars with non-working suspensions, we might be able to take THAT to Service and get some satisfaction. Here’s what to do:
get in your car, go to this screen:View attachment 829539tap the brake to activate the suspension, then select “Comfort “ and read the Front Left Compression Damping number… write it down. Now read the same number after selecting “Sport “, then tap “Advanced “ and select “Ride Comfort “ and record the numbers for the 5 settings “Soft“ thru “Firm”. Here’s what mine reads: Comfort: 0. Sport: 28. “Ride Comfort, Soft thru Firm: 0. 4. 4. 8. 20.
PLEASE reply to this post with your results. Give your cars’ year and model AND your delivery date! If your results are the same as mine, just say so, but if they’re different, I’m really interested to know what they are. I’m hoping to get some replies from those of you with working suspensions. The readings will only take a minute to get! PLEASE HELP! Thanks!

I have a 2022 Model S
Received 6Dec21
Under Comfort: 0% although a 4% entry sometimes appears and then changes to 0%
Under Sport: 28% although sometimes I get a reading of 24%
Under Advanced and Ride Comfort, whether I am in a high or medium level of suspension, there are no numbers
I click the various 5 spots and nothing appears
I tried to post a photo.

 

[pvdoug]

Lets try again

 

[spiny]

Hi Steve
Maybe you answered this question - but I didn’t see it in your video or this thread… Have you ridden in someone else’s car that you feel DOES work? So for example at the service center or at a Tesla meetup have you been able to ride with someone who has a model s or X where there was a noticeable difference in ride comfort between settings? Just curious because it seems like a side by side comparison would be informative

 

[tm1v2]

I haven't driven or ridden in a Palladium Model S yet. My S P85 has air springs with non-adjustable damping.

However as an alternative point of comparison, I installed adjustable dampers (coilovers) on my Model 3 Performance a few months ago. They have one knob for adjusting both compression and rebound along a preset relationship curve. There are 32+ "clicks" of adjustment.

Counting 1 as full stiff, the difference between 11 and 22, for example, is extremely obvious. Can't miss it, nothing subtle about it.

That is what I would expect from comparing comfort vs sport modes on factory adjustable dampers. If it's so subtle someone is questioning whether there's any difference, the system is broken.

 

[SteveSchweer]

I have a 2022 Model S
Received 6Dec21
Under Comfort: 0% although a 4% entry sometimes appears and then changes to 0%
Under Sport: 28% although sometimes I get a reading of 24%
Under Advanced and Ride Comfort, whether I am in a high or medium level of suspension, there are no numbers
I click the various 5 spots and nothing appears
I tried to post a photo.

Thanks for doing the test! Did all of the “suspension info” numbers disappear? If so, it sounds like the car has “turned off”. You could try tapping the brake again…

 

[SteveSchweer]

Hi Steve
Maybe you answered this question - but I didn’t see it in your video or this thread… Have you ridden in someone else’s car that you feel DOES work? So for example at the service center or at a Tesla meetup have you been able to ride with someone who has a model s or X where there was a noticeable difference in ride comfort between settings? Just curious because it seems like a side by side comparison would be informative

It sure would! Unfortunately I haven’t been able to do it. I tried to schedule a test ride in a new Model S, but none are available now. Even so, while I would love to experience variable ride modes for myself, I agree with tm1v2 (above)… if you have to ask yourself if it’s working, it ain’t! If it IS working, you’ll KNOW it! The essential thing is to develop a tangible metric to PROVE that it is different from a working system.

 

[spiny]

It sure would! Unfortunately I haven’t been able to do it. I tried to schedule a test ride in a new Model S, but none are available now. Even so, while I would love to experience variable ride modes for myself, I agree with tm1v2 (above)… if you have to ask yourself if it’s working, it ain’t! If it IS working, you’ll KNOW it! The essential thing is to develop a tangible metric to PROVE that it is different from a working system.

Makes sense to me about feeling the difference. It seems like ultimately having a back to back measurement of one that is working and one that isn’t would be what it takes to prove your assay/test is accurate. This YouTube channel had a comparison that may be informative - they seem to corroborate your idea that you can feel the difference. But the most compelling information is the graph at 7:23 - they seem to have used a phone vibration sensor app. As usual for “YouTube science” the extent to which this is controlled or replicated is unclear. And the data are noisy…. But if we take it at face value does seem the system isolates against vibration -

Have you tried this type of vibration sensor measurement? based on your reporting there would be no difference among modes in your car, and measureable difference in a car with working air suspension…

just a thought. Seems like someone on this forum should hook you up with a test ride in another S with “working” suspension. Or even tesla service center. I’d offer if i had one…

 

[pvdoug]

Thanks for doing the test! Did all of the “suspension info” numbers disappear? If so, it sounds like the car has “turned off”. You could try tapping the brake again…

Thank you! You are doing the heavy lifting.
No numbers disappeared or ever appeared. After I click Advanced the "white shadow" appears but everything remains blank before and after clicking. No numbers under Ride Comfort and not under Handling. And the car is on.
You stated “Ride Comfort, Soft thru Firm: 0. 4. 4. 8. 20" yet I do not see your numbers in your example. Am I missing something?