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Shuddering at low speeds

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by lagann, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. lagann

    lagann Member

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    So my car is shuddering at lower speeds, and only every now and then. It took me a while to really even acknowledge it because it was rare and I kept just saying it was the road, but the other day it happened and I couldn't just brush it off again. It happens at lower speeds, around 30mph, and when I'm not using much power. Since then I've had it happen twice more, with the most recent one being really dramatic and lasting for a lot longer than before. I went to the service center and drove around with a technician but I couldn't get it to happen again. He said he's never heard of anyone having a problem like this. I was wondering if anyone else seems to have had this happen?
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Shuddering (assuming you mean what I mean by shuddering) can be caused by a number of things.

    1. Too much caster (alignment). This is like a shopping cart with one of those wonky wheels.
    2. Warped brake rotors.
    3. Warped wheel.
    4. Steering gear or motor problems.
    5. Something else (road surface, roof rack, drive train, etc.)

    Try to notice what you are doing when it happens. Is it over a particular patch of road? Are you braking, turning, etc.?

    Also check the torque on the wheel nuts. They should be 175 Nm / 129 ft.lb. Too loose and they can do this.
     
  3. lagann

    lagann Member

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    1) So it doesn't feel like an alignment issue. I've had several cars with that problem and my car was having that problem over the summer. It feels different.
    2) I just had the car in for Service last week, so I doubt this would be the problem. Plus, it doesn't happen when I'm using the break, just accelerating.
    3) I'm not sure on this, but like I said, the car was just serviced. Also, it hasn't just happened since being serviced so I doubt it's anything that may have happened while it was being service.
    4) I'm afraid it'd be this.
    5) It's definitely not the road surface. I can go over the same patches of road and not have the problem, which I've done many times. Plus, when it was really dramatic I was on super smooth road, and I've gone over that a bunch more to try to get it to happen again and driving the same way and I didn't feel anything.

    I thought I had it down to certain situations then on Sunday it through me a curveball where it happened really dramatically and didn't really match any of the situations except for low speed. The "vibration" feels more in the direction of travel, like rapid changes in acceleration, and also very rythmic. At the same time, the little whine you hear at lower power settings starts making an oscillating sound that seems to match the shuddering, though I've noticed the same sound before without the shuddering. But really, from past experiences with the car, I have a feeling it's going to be something pretty major, though I'm crossing my fingers that it won't.

    I'm going to have the car in for service again on Friday to have the security module replaced, so I'm sure they'll check the torque on the wheel nuts and such, since they know about this problem already. I'll make sure they do, though.
     
  4. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    The car will softly shudder when at extremely low power...like when slowly creeping forward while at a red light. You have to really be paying attention to notice it though. This is normal...I have seen it on my 2012 S85 and my 2014 P85. I've only ever noticed it at extremely low speeds though (less than 1 mph), although it's possible it happens at higher speeds under the same power demand.

    If you change the pedal position slightly (to add or remove torque) and it goes away, it's probably not a big deal. I think this is just a characteristic of low RPMs and 3 phase AC induction motors.
     
  5. lagann

    lagann Member

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    No I know about that but this is happening around 30 or 40 mph.
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    2WD or AWD?
    (helps to complete your signature).

    Is the crabbing at low speeds that is common with AWD gassers something that would be experienced in the 85D/P85D?
     
  7. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have observed this as well. It's very subtle.
     
  8. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Do you have a D with .167 software and range mode on?
     
  9. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    ^ This. :(
     
  10. lagann

    lagann Member

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    No, just plain old 85kWh purchased 6/20/14
     
  11. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    What I'm saying is that you may be seeing the same effect at low power but at a higher speed. But since you're familiar with the low speed shudder, you're best in a position to say whether the higher speed shudder is similar.
     
  12. lagann

    lagann Member

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    I'd say it's similar. It's also REALLY similar to warped brake rotors. It happened again on Thursday, and was really dramatic and intense, the worst I've ever had it. Interesting enough it went away if I went into regen, but would come right back if I started giving it power. I dropped my car off yesterday to have the security module replaced. They said they called the engineers and no one had heard of anything like this. I'm going to be out of town all next week so I'm letting them keep the car for the week to attempt to get it to reproduce for them.
     
  13. mackgoo

    mackgoo Member

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    By any chance is your traction control kicking in? Turn it off for a while and see if it continues.
     
  14. birdsaresmarter

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    #14 birdsaresmarter, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
    This may be completely n/a but I'll share an observation/thought.

    I don't know what features you have in your car, however, recently, I took my car in for routine biennial service and they gave me a loaner with all the new driver assist features. My car is early without the features. Driving a narrow road with many cars parked I was a little startled to receive some vibration feedback through the steering wheel doing very slight lane corrections around curves and avoiding pedestrians and vehicle protrusions from the right side of the road. Eventually I realized it was lane departure warning and laughed at myself. Later, I noticed that certain roadways with noticeable grooves could ALSO cause this kind of feedback from lane departure warning system. Not sure how much of this others are experiencing feedback from random roadway imperfections.

    All that said, given that what you experienced was really dramatic and intense, maybe not this. However, I can see how "this" might confuse people at first when caused by something more subtle than painted lane guidelines.
     
  15. gpetti

    gpetti Active Member

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    I don't think this is it based on the overall discussion but I wondered the same thing. Even though I knew that my car had this feature when I first drove it and experienced the vibration feedback, I thought they had screwed up my winter tire installation. It is incredible how much it feels like you are driving over lane markers that are designed to vibrate if you drive over them.
     
  16. SarasotaModelS

    SarasotaModelS 2016 85D Midnight Silver/black pano, 21s, Next Gen

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    i am having a similar problem. Once I let go of the acceleration pedal and let the regen braking kick in after my car hits 45-50 mph, my car and steering wheel shudders at around 30 mph. Lasts for only 1-2 seconds total. The shuddering disappears at 2 mph. Were you able to figure out the problem and resolution, Lagann?

    - - - Updated - - -



    i am having a similar problem. Once I let go of the acceleration pedal and let the regen braking kick in after my car hits 45-50 mph, my car and steering wheel shudders at around 30 mph. Lasts for only 1-2 seconds total. The shuddering disappears at 2 mph. Were you able to figure out the problem and resolution, Lagann?
     
  17. linkster

    linkster Member

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    I would take a Tesla technician along for an extended test ride (with you driving) until you can duplicate the condition so that he/she can experience/verify the issue rather than you just describing it to the them.

    Good luck!
     
  18. LoL Rick

    LoL Rick Like Buttah

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    This is what I wrote to the Tampa Service center in June of 2015.
    What you wrote sounds like the same thing. I would describe it as power surges that would happen at the rate of around 3-5 cycles per second. It is not a vibration - I could definitely feel the seat pushing on my back. Note that my car is also an 85 rwd produced in June of 2014.

    Anyway, the service center said they could not reproduce it. However, I had the milling noise as well and got a new drive unit in December. I can't recall having another of these incidents with the new drive unit.
     

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